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June 9, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 09 June 2021

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Happychappy

Donations create a conflict of issue for Stuart Nash’s Forestry Portfolio.
Finally it is good to see a Academic asking the questions about cash for policy’s if this had been a National Minister the media would have been in a frenzy and trying to convict them on public opinion.
So now Stuart Nash has been receiving large donations the boot is finally onthe other foot, as some say he is prospering from the decisions he makes as the new Minister of Forestry and Regional
Development.
Simon Chapple has released Political donations in his role as Director of institute for Governance and Policy Studies- a Wellington think tank and according to him ” it’s a matter of moral judgment,” (Nash) should face some very strong questioning …. if I was in Nash’s position I would not have taken the money he said.
Over sixteen days in September, Nash recieved $5,000 from Andrew Kelly who describes himself on Linkedln as Managing Director of the timber company Lumberlink; $9,503.80 from Tenon a Taupo based timber company; and $5,000 from Red Stag a Rotorua based timber company , Nash has a long association with Kelly who also donated $5,000 for Nash’s 2017 campaign and $31,000 for his 2014 re-election.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/politics/donations-create-conflict-issue-for-nashs-forestry-portfolio
Max Rashbrooke a leading scholar on wealth and democracy at Victoria University in Wellington believes the donations are “concerning and inappropriate ” and is calling on Nash to return the money.
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June 9, 2021 8:00am
- surfing
  
  How can one trust decisions related to national forestry are independent? When forestry companies are giving money to the person making the decisions?
  
  It sounds like US style politics, lobbying by private companies to convince politicians to make favourable decisions.
  
  Winston Peters NZ First was given money by the horse racing industry, and in return he gave them government benefits.
  
  This has been happening for some time, it is possible National have had similar arrangements in the past.
  
  Time to put a stop to this?
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:33am
- Ruahine
  
  Oh Dear!! Another Labour Party ‘donations’ reveal.
  “Better change the law” then will be the likely prattle from Ardern.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:02am
  - Keith White
    
    Short corollary: So basically law-abiding firearms owners screwed up by not bribing Nash with cash.
    
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    June 9, 2021 12:32pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  How is this different from Labour taking money from unions then introducing ‘fair pay agreements’? Also the portfolio was held by Shane Jones when Nash took the money.
  
  The only way this sort of quibbling can be prevented is with taxpayers being forced to pay for political campaigns instead of voluntary donors. Which I’m pretty sure is Rashbrooke’s end goal.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:46am
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, I heard Nash (Labour) and Mitchell (National) on the Hosking show this morning pissing in each other’s pockets. It was sickening really. Nash was espousing that he would never do such a thing and Mitchell agreeing with him (Nash).
  What is it with the Forestry Industry splashing the cash in the direction of politicians of the left? Didn’t Shane Jones make an art form out of obfuscating about Forestry money thrown in his direction whilst he was masquerading as an NZ1st Politician? In addition, wasn’t Forestry cash involved in the investigation into NZ1st by the Serious Fraud Office? I believe charges are still waiting to be heard against NZ1st and their involvement with Forestry businesses, not to mention the Horse Racing Industry.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:46pm
Chris R

The FBI has helped us to clean-up a part of the gangs’ operations. The PM likes to hug gang-members. Please join the dots.
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June 9, 2021 8:02am
- Tony Stuart
  
  The photo of Jacinda Ardern hugging a Mongel Mob member circulating recently was a very good photoshop, originating, I believe, from the BFD. That apart however, the Government does seem to have far too much tolerance for gangs. Gang members are not nice, misunderstood young men; many of them are criminals, involved in serious offending, and bringing misery to the people to whom they peddle drugs.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:33am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Just look at the time the silly media has been giving to the Mongrel Mob spokeswoman about this matter…whereas someone who is aware of the damage Gangs cause in a community is reduced to a one liner…
    
    “As soon as they put those colours on their backs the whole lifestyle and environment changes.”
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/444319/gang-arrests-in-fbi-led-operation-won-t-dent-meth-trade-expert
    
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    June 9, 2021 8:46am
    - Matt Long
      
      I came across this oldish study on capital punishment this morning: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/421571?read-now=1&refreqid=excelsior%3A7c6e9866da456beafcbb02b7c4ca45c0&seq=1&fbclid=IwAR1ANRnkMK4IDTZF8uq2ZoLFyLlkG7g3N7cezYy-TFY8HqkawoX0FI0vveI the precis is that for every murderer executed three innocent lives are saved. I wonder what the ratio is of every criminal hugged to damage done to society?
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:29pm
  - BeeJay
    
    Tony, hope you don’t mind, but I am suggesting a couple of edits to your comments!
    1) “seems to have far too much tolerance for gangs” should be “has far too much tolerance for gangs”!
    2) “many of them are criminals” should be “all of them are criminals!”
    We can’t soften the dialogue for these arseholes, they are a blight on the community!
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:00am
  - Nickc2
    
    I wonder if Cindy would countenance the FBI carrying out an investigation into the NZ Labour Party’s finances and alleged illegalities. They may iron out some of those lumps under Cindy’s office carpet as a starting point.
    
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    June 9, 2021 1:51pm
- MCos
  
  There were approx 35 people arrested in NZ in the last couple of days because of the FBI sting, some of whom were gang members.
  I’d like to know who the rest were?
  There’s a tendency to pin everything re organized crime on the gangs, but I get the impression those blokes are not the main characters in this business.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:48am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I’d like to know who the rest were?
    
    Of course the gangs don’t work in isolation..
    
    They have outlets and contacts through all levels of society.
    
    Whether you will ever find out who supplies them with their illegal contraband is very doubtful.
    The NZ gangs are just the strays ends of a very tightly woven web of illegal drug/money/arms/people dealing.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:22am
    - KiwiSapper
      
      “…….Whether you will ever find out who supplies them with their illegal contraband is very doubtful….”
      
      Really?” How about looking at the “to be” recipient of the container that vanished from “secured’ Auckland Harbour Board Property. You must remember the one which Customs identified as suspicious, had it put aside for examination but were not able to because a port worker ( later given Home Detention) and a truck driver friend ( later fined) uplifted it in the dark hours. It was eventually found, empty in a Bay of Plenty paddock.
      The addressee seems a Hot Favourite .
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:46am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Alas…all I’ve found is a pay-walled article on this bit of corruption.
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/insider-threat-shipping-container-linked-to-gang-vanishes-on-truck-with-help-of-port-worker/EXU7Q55QB5M7CAQEJD36PXGFJM/
        
        Sort of proves my point doesn’t it?
        We are never going to find the control knobs.
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:12pm
  - BeeJay
    
    Of course they’re not the main characters, they don’t have the basic mentality to be at the top of any organisation! The Mafia would have called them “soldiers’, the dummies that just do what they’re told, no thinking necessary!
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:28am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Was very differently reported in Australia, 150 Qantas staff, port staff, accountants, solicitors, all linked in. Could even be politicians.
    Will be the same in NZ, on a smaller scale maybe to Australia.
    The really good news for Jacinda, any caught up on 501 visas will do their time in Aussie before they make their way to a new life in New Zealand.
    The really amusing aspect of all this, a young aussie and yank spy thought this up over a beer.
    Beer goggle ideas with big results.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:40am
    - KiwiSapper
      
      “Was very differently reported in Australia,”
      
      Ah, but that is because in Australia there still exists reporters who know read, watch,listen, investigate, ask questions, sift out the horse poop from fact and then report the facts as opposed to the “bought and paid for” lot watching from afar and giving us their opinion as a fact which is what we have here in NEW ZEALAND.
      Please forgive me shouting that but I need to do as often as possible before those words are declared “hate speech.”
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:55am
      - Keith White
        
        Somewhere a journalista groupie hit the downtick button.
        
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        June 9, 2021 12:34pm
  - Nickc2
    
    If you can’t contact your Lawyer today, you may have an answer to your question.
    
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    June 9, 2021 1:54pm
- Inandout
  
  Chris, amazing how efficient the FBI can be when they are not fixated with Trump.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:17am
Suze Wainwright

Just leave me alone and let me lie back and fantasize over James Shaw telling me what to do
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June 9, 2021 8:02am
Frank the tank

What is Toxic’s problem with Collins? did she piss in her cornflakes? I see another fakenews hit job this morning.

Ignoring the headline this at best is assumption based politics and at worst downright lies – surely at some stage National and Collins start legal action.

This makes the Sun and the Mirror look top notch quality journalism.
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June 9, 2021 8:04am
- nathie
  
  Are we witnessing what Andrea Vance wrote about which was that Labour sets the news agenda for the week ahead with a conference call to the news editors?
  
  Newshub for some reason re-hashes Nick Smith and adds Paul Goldsmith to take cracks at Judith Collins, not letting it go by continually repeating questions and filmed answers to show “non-answers” by Collins painting National as being in somewhat in disarray …. meanwhile another of their reporters does a reasonable piece on the Nurse’s planned strike action including comments from nursing staff unhappy with and dissing the govt but as soon as Ardern is (finally) interviewed she basically “refutes” the allegations with a smile which ends the reporting of her (i.e. Ardern isn’t repeatedly questioned like Collins was). The contrast was clear to see.
  
  Meanwhile, to demonstrate that perhaps indeed Labour is setting the news editors agenda we have State TVNZ news basically doing the same hit job on Collins.
  
  Co-incidence? Or are the media indeed “bought off” by the PM’s Office (I didn’t see the TVNZ piece but I read the comments over on BFD last night, the commentators were fuming over TVNZ’s coverage)!
  
  So I wonder how Labour sets the news editor’s agenda? Do they say for example there is “perceived racism” by the likes of the National Party and the journos are left to put 2 and 2 together (making 5 – bless them) and run off to ask questions?
  
  Does Labour say, go talk to the Maori Party for example (who are always ready to cry “racism”) to ensure things remain “newsworthy” for a few more days, guaranteeing on-going negative coverage for National?
  
  Do News Editors like being the propaganda arm for the Labour Govt? Imagine that, being a propagandist, generally when we hear about them overseas (Russia, North Korea, former East Germany etc) these types are held in contempt by the people – oh dear!
  
  Final comment, whilst Newshub and TVNZ are gleefully trying to hold the Opposition to account by painting them as being in “disarray” … surely it is the Labour Govt in disarray when we witness them time after time announcing big funding initiatives (eg 100,000 homes, roading infrastructure, light rail to the airport etc) then either failing to deliver or are simply cancelling and re-announcing new/same projects (then later, cancelling and re-announcing new/same projects etc) … isn’t this a sign of a govt in disarray? Doh!
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:53am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    It seems that only in NZ would the media hold the opposition to account instead of, I don’t know, the government of the day perhaps. If they didn’t already have no money, they should be sued by the taxpayer for loss caused by their negligence in terms of the information they provide the electorate.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:22am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    MSM are held in contempt in New Zealand. Even those ideologically aligned with their cheerleading must know in their guts that it’s not really in the long term interest of anyone to have a media that holds the opposition to account rather than the sitting government.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:59am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Excellent perception. Labour always have a lot of work underground.
    
    Thankfully their all hui no doi is showing up and even nurses are to strike. Wait till you go to the supermarket, we may not be far of food price riots.
    Labour are self destructing through incompetence coupled with ideology.
    
    National are alive and vigorous waiting to take over and attempt to fix the damage. That is not an easy ask but their team are grounded in practical realities. They know when something is out of control. As for the false beat-ups this is getting to be answerable as the outcome of MSM bribery.
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:33am
    - Groggy
      
      Downticking cos National are not alive and vigorous, drifting and rudderless is a more accurate description.
      
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      June 9, 2021 5:36pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Granted National are not taking on Smaug the Dragon head on. Could you?
        
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        June 9, 2021 7:30pm
    - curry4me
      
      KevO’Brien: If National had a backbone; here’s what they could say to the bought and paid for media. “We’ll be back” “When that happens, RNZ, and TVNZ will have their news and current affairs removed.” “All advertising will be on Google and FB”. “No bailouts for TV3”. “Or you could just remember how to do journalism”.
      
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      June 9, 2021 6:17pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Timing is significant too. The media and Labour are making such fools of themselves at present why spoil the revelation?
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:47pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    This is the same media that went after Bridges like rabid dogs with bones, who lampooned his accent in print and cartoons, who (intentionally or otherwise) gave Muller and his fellow backers the courage to roll Bridges.
    
    Then they hounded Muller out of the job, pointing at how well National had been doing under him, and now they’re doing the same with Collins. The decline and fall of the Fourth Estate has been precipitous and swift, and may never be recoverable.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:38pm
- Tricati
  
  Its just deflection off the muppets in government. From the shambles of covid vaccine supply (front of the cue BS) and the omni-shambles of the vaccine delivery itself (Who is actually next, and who has already been done and why), to land of national significance rubbish, to striking nurses (remember- no strikes on my watch comment form PM); and not to mention, Ministers and senior public servants meeting with gang leaders, who have now been shown to be the absolute thugs they are. And wow, a new walking/cycling bridge across Auckland harbour, yet sewage pours onto the beaches with regularity, but I guess that’s OK as its not off a farm.
  Also, the country is running out of money fast, and all the BS from Robertson doesn’t hide the fact it is the primary industries keeping the countries head above water – The same industries this government is trying to close down.
  The fact the media are focusing on National just goes to show how much they are in the governments pocket, as any real attention on the issues mentioned above would be significantly damaging to the government, let alone all at once.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:57am
Than

Latest piece of climate alarmism – it’s no longer a vague, generic blaming of extreme weather events on climate change, now people are making the absurd claim they can attribute specific percentages of the damage.

To be blunt, you’d have a very hard time convincing me these models are any more meaningful than reading tea-leaves.

First issue, the results produced by the models are inherently unfalsifiable. Its not like we can look at both a world with and without climate change, so there is no way to empirically test or validate them. Even the authors themselves only assign “medium confidence” to the result, and that’s being pretty generous. They are effectively nothing but a fairy-tale told in mathematical equations.
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June 9, 2021 8:06am
- Simon
  
  Science.
  
  Ex-CDC director Redfield says he received death threats from fellow scientists over COVID-19 theory
  
  Former Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) Director Robert Redfield says he received death threats from fellow scientists after saying he believed the coronavirus originated in a lab.
  
  In an interview with Vanity Fair, Redfield opened up about the backlash he received after telling CNN in March that he supports the lab theory,
  
  He said he was “threatened and ostracized because I proposed another hypothesis.”
  “I expected it from politicians. I didn’t expect it from science,” Redfield said.
  
  https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/556692-ex-cdc-director-redfield-says-he-received-death-threats-from-fellow
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:27am
  - Bluegrass
    
    Follow the money…
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:20am
- Bobba Fret
  
  They will be as accurate as Shaun Hendy’s model on Covid deaths in NZ of 80,000 people will die.
  How the hell did he calculate that.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:12am
  - Simon
    
    “How the hell did he calculate that.”
    
    He would have got that from WHO who early on said infection fatality rate of the Ro was 1 to 2%. That claim made around February 2020. It was fake news though.
    
    The actual Ro IFR is .15%. That is 99.85% survival rate. Average age of death 80 years with comorbidities.
    
    Cindy gubermint, like them all shat themselves. Now cant admit to making horrible mistakes over a bad flu season. Its also good for them politically. The show must go on.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:45am
    - Happy1
      
      Simon, the 0.15%, it’s just the flu has long been abandoned by all but a few. The U.K. have lost 0.2% ( 135,000 souls excess deaths and clinical assessment) of their total population even though only 15-20% of the population have been infected. An IR rate of 1 -1.5 % generally accepted.
      
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      June 9, 2021 2:23pm
  - doggone7
    
    Don’t believe the headlines and repeat that as the whole story. Myth becoming reality.
    
    How did Hendy calculate that? He used accepted methods and this is what came out:
    
    “New research suggests up to 80,000 Kiwis could die from coronavirus without strict measures such as the country-wide lockdown.
    
    Assuming 20 “seed cases” and a transmission rate of 2.5 the model looks at what would happen if no attempts were made to stop the spread of the disease.”
    
    So, ‘without strict measures’ and ‘if no attempts were made to stop the spread of the disease’ there could have been up to 80,000 deaths according to Hendy.
    
    Those who did not want strict measures adopted or wanted no attempts to stop the spread didn’t get to have Hendy’s worst case scenarios proved or disproven. Being alive has given them the base from which to misrepresent what he said.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:18am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Wrongo- I understand the Centre for Research excellence (auckland) used the Imperial College model, which is linked to the infamous professor caught sneaking out to his mistress during UK lock down, and the same model which grossly inflated SARS and Bird flu deaths in the same way it grossly inflated Covid deaths.
      It has proven itself to be basically useless – might as well read chicken entrails.
      Note: that the Otago Covid Research Group had an upper limit of 14,000 dead, but said 98% chance this would not happen – it assumed no govt mitigation at all, no tracing, etc.
      More sober, that.
      
      Depending on the levers you use in modelling, you can get hysterical results.
      So to suggest that 80,000 people were ever going to die is nonsense.
      ….Not in the least that the WHO has revised down the lethality of Covid since the modelling was first made. At one point it was said to kill on average 3.5%, but late in the same year the WHO revised to 0.5%.
      So we know the reality a bit better, and that the numbers were never ever right. Even at the worst of the pandemic this was the UPPER and LEAST LIKELY of outcomes.
      So 80,000 deaths is a fairly meaningless figure.
      The media however ran with it, and Cindy mentioned tens of thousands of dead, and the rest is history.
      Costly, ruinous, farcical, hysterical, teddy bear clutching history.
      “Because we are alive”…LOL
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:08am
      - doggone7
        
        It’s a pity the experiment couldn’t be carried out as some wanted. We should have done nothing.
        
        The economy would have thrived, tourists would have filled Queenstown and Hendy would’ve been proved wrong.
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:05pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Doggone, doing nothing was not an option.
        What was needed was the Goldilocks zone – something less than a total lockdown when we had no community transmission. Tourism was always going to be hit, but other parts of the economy need not.
        Border control, our one great geographic natural advantage being leveraged, was always key.
        
        We were really very lucky to get off with so few cases, since they didn’t even quarantine at the border initially and went with a ‘trust’ model, (similar to the testing of border workers more recently).
        Any nuance and robustness in the right places has come slowly to our Covid response.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:24pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      How did Hendy calculate that? He used ~~accepted~~ thumb sucking fear generation methods and this is what came out…
      
      The key word is in your lower sentence:
      
      New research suggests up to 80,000 Kiwis could die from coronavirus without strict measures such as the country-wide lockdown.
      
      Could is not the same as will.
      
      You doggone7, could win powerball 52 weeks in a row. But you won’t. And you may not even win once. And you definitely won’t win anytime, not ever, if you don’t buy a ticket.
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:22pm
  - Keith White
    
    GIGO (Garbage in garbage out).
    He assumed the following:
    Very high case fatality rate
    No change in the public’s behaviour
    No advantage to being an island with no land borders
    No ability to ramp up health care staff and resources
    No treatments
    
    etc.
    Like that clown Ferguson from the Imperial College dork tank, why is Hendy still getting any respect or airtime at all? Because Ardern & Co have bought so far into this BS they cannot escape.
    
    Hey Princess of the Pestilence, grok this: “The sunk cost fallacy reasoning states that further investments or commitments are justified because the resources already invested will be lost otherwise. Therefore, the sunk cost fallacy is a mistake in reasoning in which the sunk costs of an activity are considered when deciding whether to continue with the activity.”
    
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    June 9, 2021 12:38pm
- surfing
  
  Alarmism is to say that our coastline will be uninhabitable in 50 years time.
  
  You say they made alarmist claims but I cannot see that they made any such statements.
  
  Looks like a mathematical problem and they are trying to solve. Might have use in other applications too.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:18am
  - Than
    
    The problem here isn’t the math. I presume all their equations are correct and add up beautifully.
    
    The problem is the assumptions that will have gone into those equations – a classic “assume you have a perfectly Spherical Cow” issue. And that’s the part we have no way to meaningfully test. Their model could be 100% correct. It could be complete nonsense. And we have no way to tell which.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:57am
    - surfing
      
      Still not alarmism.
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:32pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        Than is correct, it is alarmism, and there are too many assumptions. To dispel the assumptions requires specifics:
        
        Your premise is that the statement “…the coastline will be uninhabitable in 50 years…” is not alarmism, i.e. that it is true.
        
        [1] Uninhabitable coastline assumption. Even if the sea rose by the “predicted” amount (which is not fact), there will still be a coastline, the place where the land meets the sea. The coast line may have changed location, but it will still a coastline. The line will have moved, however there will still be a coast and a coast line.
        
        Unless there is a material void or nothingness, like in some sci-fi movie, or sea monsters come up from the deep and prevent humans from getting to the sea, there will still an accessible coastline.
        
        Coastal erosion and coastal drift has been happening since there were oceans. The coastlines you know about today, have shrunk or grown over time. And land masses have moved.
        
        [2] The coastline will not be uninhabitable i.e. change where the line is, due to sea level rise, since the rate of annual sea level rise has not changed in the last century. If there was any validity to a torrent of sea level rise, you would expect to see confirmation of change in sea level rise in tidal gauges. But there is not. Sea level rise is a differential change in the relative level of the sea in comparison the land masses.
        
        [3] In absence of any indicative scientific measurements and relevant data that confirm rapid sea level rise, then any attempts to convince the public that sea level rise is happening, is alarmism.
        
        [4] It has been written in folklore, the bible, children’s stories, old writings, carved in rock in Japan – Don’t build on the coastline. Build on rock. And any child that has made sandcastles on the beach, knows the destructive power of water.
        
        The concept of disappearing coastlines is just someone’s wet dream. Pun intended.
        
        If Al Gore, a great great climate change/coastal erosion/”reduce your carbon footprint” alarmist, actually believed the shit he shovels, he:
        
        [a] Would not have purchased a sea front mansion in the last decade; And neither would Obama who purchased the same in the last 3 years.
        [b] Would not have two or more large mansions with massive carbon footprints, and electricity use large enough to power 30 homes.
        
        If those that preach the Climate Change gospel don’t follow it, then perhaps its about the money to be made by the alarmism, not the climate.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:33pm
- Bloody Dago
  
  Climate change has no placebo or an inert state to quantify an increase or decrease in “activity”
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:44am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The models themselves are aggregated to give an “average” as if the central limit theorem applied.
  The misuse of maths show their invalidity.
  Further the UN IPCC (the climate czars) boldly stated in their 3rd Assessment Report that they could NOT predict the future climate. The climate worked as a chaotic system where small changes in inputs could and did produce unpredictable large outcomes. Fun computer runs for modellers but useless as science or political advice.
  
  I have made my own models in another field and they do have their uses but they have to be sound from the outset with very few parameters so changes can be tested. Climate models are mathematical junk.
  
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  June 9, 2021 11:43am
JibberJabber

“What sickens me about left-wing people, especially the intellectuals, is their utter ignorance of the way things actually happen.”

― George Orwell, A Life in Letters
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June 9, 2021 8:10am
- kowtow
  
  He saw how they operated in Spain.
  
  In the International Brigades in Spain ,which were run by Stalinists , up to 10 % of their casualties were inflicted by their own side through executions for being suspected “spy’. And I doubt there was much in the way of due process.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:30am
- David Garrett
  
  Jibber: That one’s gone straight to the pool room…
  
  Here’s another attributed to Orwell:
  
  Some ideas are so absurd that only intellectuals believe them
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:38am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “A government that can make people believe absurdities can also make them commit atrocities.”
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:12am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    and written especially for our history buffs:
    
    Who controls the past controls the future: who controls the present controls the past.
    -Nineteen eighty-four
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:31am
- surfing
  
  Like Jacinda trying to solve a supply issue by trying to change demand (housing).
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:19am
Maggie Pie

I see Greta is back in the limelight with the release of a new video…. chiding everyone to change their lifestyles before the planet turns into the set of ‘Mad Max’.

In Greta’s words…. “If we don’t change, we’re f*cked”

https://twitter.com/nowthisnews/status/1396561068541976576

(WATCH: Full screen/ Sound up 😀 )
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June 9, 2021 8:10am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Sorry Mags, I’m not listening to that mad cow,
  I want to start the day on a positive note.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Visiting a paddock would be better.
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:44am
- kowtow
  
  Sadly our own masters ( of all colours)have bought the lie and are hell bent on destroying us , just they’ll do it a bit slower than those loons.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:31am
Nukuleka

I’m sure that my heartfelt groan of dismay could be heard across NZ when I read that Todd Muller and John Luxon came out publicly to disagree with Paul Goldsmith’s very reasonable and balanced comments about the benefits of colonisation for Maori. What is wrong with people like Luxon and Muller? Muller has already proven his liability as a National MP and now we have Luxon similarly pissing on a fellow MP and showing that he is someone not to be trusted. I despair.
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June 9, 2021 8:17am
- DaleK
  
  Mark Mitchell was hardly supportive this morning either. These guys are failing to read the room.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:30am
  - MCos
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Maybe you and Goldsmith are wrong.
    Have you considered that?
    
    9 46
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    June 9, 2021 8:51am
  - nathie
    
    Huh? Mark Mitchell on ZB with Hosking was very clear in his support of Paul Goldsmith (and Hosking allowed, unlike say Morning Report for example, Mitchell the time to provide context to the issue).
    
    I thought Mark Mitchell did a better job, messaging wise, compared to the likes of traitor Muller, and Luxon and Bishop last night … mind you Newshub could have taken them out of context, which is normal (eg they gave a better longer explanation, but Newshub simply showed them with a one-second news bite, so who knows).
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:15am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Traitors because they gave answers they apparently believe in public under their own names?
      Goldsmith displayed the frozen in the headlights National is caught in but at least he said it, genuinely and I think the same with the others. Bennett (can’t remember his first name) hit the nail on the head when he said it was for Maori to answer the question which in other language meant he wouldn’t patronise Maori. Try it some time. He could be a new leader, someone with a presence of mind.
      Meanwhile, Judith caught in her own headlights as well, refusing to comment about any conversations with Nick Smith.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:09am
      - nathie
        
        No just “traitor” Muller (because of his coup which resulted in National being now perceived by media as being weak). I don’t regard Luxon and Bishop as traitors (hence the apostrophe separation), far from it, I have respect for those two.
        
        Regardless all of their comments (Muller, Luxon, Bishop and Collins) were selectively edited by O’Brien into half-second sound-bites, so we will never know the full context of their questioning and answers … but I suspect they were a lot better in nuance than what Tova wanted her audience to see (as usual with her).
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:41am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        This is all coming to a head because Labour are dropping out of the skies like a plane without fuel. They’ve added all their dough to the inflationary fuel tank and Grant has gone flying too high and too fast. He may enjoy the kicks as a former cafe assistant book keeper but who’s going to clean up the mess when the plane falls?
        Promises, promises, promises but now it’s prices, prices, price, wages, wages, wages, prices…
        The media bribe will have to be repaid, if not in money, other justice may be needed.
        This rabid deception has to cease. Thankfully Labour are close to self termination following the self adulation.
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:53am
- kowtow
  
  And Bishop and “Crusher”
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:32am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Who’s John Luxon?
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:34am
  - Nostradamus
    
    Who’s John Luxon? He’s a friend of three other well-known Kiwiblog personalities: Chris Luxton, John Keys, and Mike Hoskins. Captain Mainwaring knows them well 🙂
    
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    June 9, 2021 8:51am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Apologies, Tony. Chris Luxon it should have been. I’d be a little more impressed if you’d gone beyond my obviously inept error in misnaming Mr Luxon (I’ve misnamed him before in a post interestingly) and dealt with the issue I raised. Surely you are concerned that the likes of Luxon and Muller and other ‘wets’ in the National caucus are cementing the idea of division within the National ranks and driving folk like me towards ACT.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:43am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I don’t believe the media at present. National are much more together than they present.
      
      Labour are close to getting bitten on their… .
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:55am
- H. Upmann
  
  Muller back and running the sabotage of National. And who would have guessed that he would partner up with the woke, wet CHRISTOPHER Luxon?
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:35am
  - Jack5
    
    Muller has no credibility after the disastrous coup on the eve of the election and his quick failure.
    
    Luxon is overtly ambitious and his unusual combination of born-again Christianity with social liberalism irritates many.
    
    Bishop, now a list MP, lost the Hutt South electorate to Ginny Andersen. He gets access to Leftist State TV (which itself is telling), but hasn’t made big hits on his specialty, the pandemic.
    
    Can Collins get voter traction while carrying them?
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:45am
    - H. Upmann
      
      Jack: Collins is in the unfortunate position of having to daily deal with battles on three fronts; her prime job as opposition leader holding the Government to account, trying to get traction in spite of media bias and viciousness and then marshal her often backstabbing “team” to show some unity and for them to realise the enemy is not within, but across the aisle.
      Give her credit for being at her best in an unwinnable situation in what will most probably be, in the end, a caretaker role.
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:25am
- G152
  
  Compare the life style and goodies from the 17th century in NZ with the current goodies and life style available now.
  That is what Paul Goldsmith was on about and it certainly came from colonisation.
  Thank goodness
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:40am
  - Yabster
    
    Muller should resign- hopeless- how he ever thought he was leadership material is beyond me- scary thing is a far few of Nationals mp’s thought so also.
    What Goldsmith said was on balance – ie yes colonisation came with some negatives but in his opinion (last time I looked we are allowed to have an opinion- not so much with comrade cindy in power) the positives outweighed the negatives.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:02am
    - Gravelroad
      
      I was surprised that Mr Muller chose to stand for election last year given his personal problems and portrayal of them.
      Kind of like Prince Harry whose mental health didn’t allow him to continue with his highly paid PR Royal duties. He escaped to the US, asked for privacy from the media then proceeded to draw attention to himself in a public manner.
      
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      June 9, 2021 6:15pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Or even in England with their plagues and constant wars. Oh, and aren’t they being taken over by a new religion now?
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:12am
- jon
  
  Absolutely nothing wrong with what Goldsmith said. What is wrong is the Nats have become gutless..afraid to take a stand..no wonder so many former Nat supporters have gone to Act whose leader clearly articulates their sensible policies.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:48am
  - kowtow
    
    Scary thing is how they all looked like stunned mullets when the question was posed .
    
    These guys can’t handle an ambush question from some third rate hack and yet they want us to think they can run the country .
    
    Maybe it is true , all they can do is boost GDP through massive third world immigration and then sit back on their shiny arses while the Sheeple talk about how well they’ve done through house price inflation , meanwhile bridges are collapsing .
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:19am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      Sad to say, I agree that I look back on John Key as a ‘face’ for the party, like Cindy, but that National simply ran a huge Ponzi scheme with mass immigration.
      NZ is very different to what it was 20 years ago – and it was not sustainable and it eventually shifts the character of the nation. For better or worse, I can’t tell.
      National did well on infrastructure, roads and UFB, but Labour returns to power and enacts ideological change which is much more open ended and even insidious in impacts.
      A road is built, it is done. But a new school curriculum, and complete rebuild of the economy for CCC, He Puapua etc.
      John Key had no great legacy yet the party which Cindy runs is making material change which affects future generations….and in this case I will say for worse, not better.
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:30am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    How can National have any showing with the paid media onslaught?
    This bribery will have an eventual very high price. By succoring an incompetent bunch of wannabes with NZ at stake they have killed their own futures too.
    
    They know the $105M was a bribe and have acted accordingly. Now the country has been substantially diminished and a wage price spiral started through their connivance they are going to have to be called to the dock. They cannot defend their quasi criminal conduct.
    
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    June 9, 2021 12:04pm
- Inandout
  
  Nuku, I suspect more National voters are moving toward ACT.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:20am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Name 5 ACT MPs (without looking it up). Also the electorates they represent …..
    
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    June 9, 2021 5:01pm
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  Most of the National Party and their snivelling toady columnists and PR people can’t see 2 inches in front of their faces. Honestly, why would we think these idiots could change anything when they don’t even have the nous to recognise what is wrong? The country has cancer and they want to give us a panadol. At least under Labour, the damage is going to be much, much quicker and therefore will become much more readily apparent to the semi-comatose voter much faster.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:29am
- surfing
  
  There was only political disadvantage in starting such an argument, so why start it in the first place?
  
  The naivety of Goldsmith was surprising to me.
  
  Sure, Maori did gain some benefits, but, they also suffered. Goldsmith opened the door for Maori to re-litigate all of their grievances.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:33am
  - oldfella
    
    @surfing, yep, before colonisation, Maori fought endless inter-tribal wars, killing their enemies, turning captives into slaves, and eating the rest.
    And bloody colonists ruined this idyllic lifestyle.
    Those pesky whiteys have a lot to answer for… /s
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:15am
    - jon
      
      BRILLIANT oldfella..the truth hurts alright. Little wonder the left dont want pre 1840 history in NZ to be taught in schools. INCONVENIENT TRUTH!
      
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      June 9, 2021 2:20pm
    - MCos
      
      “Maori fought endless inter-tribal wars”
      
      Bit like Europe, you could say.
      
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      June 9, 2021 5:39pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Good point, but the door is already open and what is needed are some boundaries around that. In the usual fashion, most KBers have no idea that the winds were changing and now have. National is aware of that whether it suits everyone on KB or not.
    The number of National MPs that recognized the detriment of the land wars was a majority.
    The “I’m going to Act,” or “I’ve gone to Act” is like pissing in the wind. National will do what is best for itself to get into power. That’s politics.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:36am
  - nathie
    
    Surfing, to be extremely fair to Paul Goldsmith, he was simply responding to the radical racist propaganda being put out by the activist Left (including two-faced Labour & Ardern pretending there is nothing to see here).
    
    In fact he was only doing what many people here would have expected of the National Party (and ACT, which Seymour is doing).
    
    Goldsmith is a historian and admits he was somewhat Left leaning in his formative years, including researching for the Waitangi Tribunal, but he clearly speaks power to truth and he is an asset to National, especially his calling out of the radical educational history proposals.
    
    Let’s hear more of Paul Goldsmith’s informed and educated comments please!
    
    (Oh – and not directed at you – as to the nature of my comments peeps … don’t presume I am “Pakeha”)!
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:50am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Give them their tikanga and take back the settlements. We have a price on our cultural use too.
    
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    June 9, 2021 12:05pm
- Unity
  
  I thought exactly the same about Muller and Luxon and certainly won’t vote for Luxon or National if he ever becomes Leader. They have latched onto the Woke narrative and have proved that they aren’t suitable to lead the country. Well we already know that about Muller. We need people who can think for themselves and know enough about the background to make the right decisions. Paul Goldsmith has gone right up in my estimation. A politician with a backbone. Well said, Paul.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:18am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Muller is probably Labour’s second best asset after Cindy.
    
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    June 9, 2021 4:59pm
- Paulus
  
  Muller and Luxon should be ashamed of themselves with them no wonder National is below par. Goldsmith with whom I agree but to go crawling to the so called Labour paid media is a disgrace.
  Both would be expected to know better as so called former business people.
  One of them is now a no vote in my electorate.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:44pm
Happychappy

This Government is a joke , you get to read headlines like this but you can’t read the story because it is paywalled.
Benefit Fraud Prosecutions by Ministry of Social Development drop 90% in 5 years , so how did it drop and how because my first reaction to this story is it is no wonder why we see that the Government can’t give Nurses a pay rise as we are letting those that don’t pay tax away with fraudulent activities which in time will increase when others see there is no Consequences for wrong doing.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/benefit-fraud-prosecutions-by-ministry-of-social-development-drop-90-per-cent-in-five-years/SYQJ7QIU52B22PT2W7RH2K4AAI/
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June 9, 2021 8:24am
- tf78
  
  Happy you can say what ever you like if you don’t keep data for comparisons.
  
  9 3
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  June 9, 2021 8:43am
  - sooty
    
    Oh, you can bet they collect the data,
    They just won’t tell you!
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:32am
NK

“On balance, colonisation has been good for the country”.

Critically evaluate and discuss in light of the woke cancel culture that pervades our society today.

In your answer, you can assume that both the National Party and Labour Party disagree with this statement.

50 marks
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June 9, 2021 8:25am
- rangitoto
  
  A far from complete list. Colonisation brought:
  
  1. Abolition of slavery
  2. Abolition of cannibalism
  3. Democracy
  4. Written language
  5. Written law code
  6. Pottery
  7. Metallurgy
  8. Mathematics
  9. Science
  10. Concrete
  11. Wheeled transport
  12. Internal Combustion Engine
  13. Electricity.
  14. Many of the ancestors of current day Maori.
  
  Cindy is working hard on eliminating #3. What will be next to go?
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:36am
  - MCos
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Colonization is undemocratic by definition.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:14am
    - Yabster
      
      so you will be going back to where ever your ancestors came from?- colonisation (spelt correctly not with a z as thats american) is part of human history get over it – techniclly Maori also Colonised NZ as they were not the first people here.
      
      the UK was also Colonised by the Romans then the Germans (4th century) and then the French/Normans maybe the Britions (mainly welsh now) should get all there land back??
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:10am
      - rangitoto
        
        The Normans were actually Danish.
        
        2 8
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        June 9, 2021 10:19am
      - septic skeptic
        
        Normans from Normandy maybe?
        
        9 2
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        June 9, 2021 10:42am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        You missed out: Danes, Angles, Saxons…
        
        Probably Picts and Celts too, but there’s not enough physical evidence to know for sure
        
        7 1
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        June 9, 2021 10:51am
      - SB2
        
        “The Normans were actually Danish”
        
        Actually assimilated French who spoke French
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:00am
      - rangitoto
        
        Normandy was named after the people. ie North – man. They were mostly Danish Vikings who settled that part of France under the Viking leader Rollo. They were granted the land by Charles the Simple in return for stopping their raiding of French towns.
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:03am
      - Jack5
        
        The Normans descended from Vikings who settled in north-west France in the 9th century AD.
        
        The name “Norman” comes from “north men” or “Norse men”.
        
        The Normans who invaded England spoke an old version of French called Norman French. Normans who settled in England gradually changed their language to Anglo-Norman, then to the Germanic Middle English.
        
        https://www.thoughtco.com/normans-viking-rulers-of-normandy-171946
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:33am
      - Yabster
        
        the Normans where french(ie they came from Normandy spoke frnch etc)but descended from the Vikings – bit of a circle really.
        
        3 1
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        June 9, 2021 12:15pm
      - alex Masterley
        
        My surname is Franco/Norman. So what?
        If we are going to do the colonisation thing and return to the land of our forebears then quite frankly Chaldees of Ur will be pretty bloody crowded. As will Korea which is the where the genetic origins of our Maori bretheren are sourced.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:34pm
      - Jack5
        
        Re Alex Masterley’s 2.34 post …
        
        DNA shows ancient ancestors of Maori (and all Polynesians) comes from the hill tribes of Taiwan, not from Korea.
        
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        June 9, 2021 8:14pm
    - Jack5
      
      MCos says “Colonization is undemocratic by definition”. It’s not as straight forward as that.
      
      Democracies have long had colonies. The Ancient Greeks, who founded the concept of democracy, had many colonies – in France, Spain, Turkey, Italy, Egypt, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Russia. Later some of these colonies formed their own colonies.
      
      This is how Western civilisation spread.
      
      The link below explains how the word “democracy” arose in Greece, but adds that modern democracy owes more to the British parliamentary tradition than to Ancient Greece.
      
      Democracies seem to spring from colonisation – the United States, the Commonwealth countries, the more democratic Latin American countries.
      
      Supposedly non-colonisers don’t tend to spread democracy. Apart from the Baltic states, the countries that were formerly part of the Soviet Union are examples of undemocratic states. Think of Hong Kong – a democracy as a colony, a non-democracy now and no longer a colony.
      
      https://listverse.com/2017/09/04/top-10-little-known-facts-about-ancient-greek-democracy/
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:06pm
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        HK was not quite a democracy.
        
        It had the rule of law, freedom of expression and assembly, and popularly elected representatives, but not governments created from the representatives of one person, one vote of equal value.
        
        9 0
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        June 9, 2021 2:24pm
  - Bill Felt
    
    Knitting mill
    steam engine
    
    21 2
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    June 9, 2021 9:14am
  - -D
    
    Medicine
    Television
    Overseas Holidays
    Lion Brown
    Tile Roofs
    Gum Boots
    Kiwi Burger
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5CX_NCf8Ow
    
    21 2
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    June 9, 2021 9:44am
    - rangitoto
      
      KFC!
      
      16 2
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      June 9, 2021 9:59am
      - oldfella
        
        DPB!
        
        13 1
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        June 9, 2021 10:18am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        DB!
        
        9 1
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        June 9, 2021 10:55am
  - amospicton
    
    And the trifling matter of doubling their life expectancy.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:44am
    - MCos
      
      Maori life expectancy was low by today’s standards at the time & still is.
      The life expectancy of the colonisers was also low by today’s standards too.
      Not long after the colonisation occurred Māori life expectancy rapidly reduced as they succumbed to introduced diseases.
      
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      June 9, 2021 4:04pm
      - Jack5
        
        From the NZ Encyclopedia …
        
        Maori average life expectancy:
        
        Before arrival of Europeans: about 30 years.
        By 1891 (from birth): Men (to age) 25, women 23.
        In 2013: Men 73, women 79.
        
        The encyclopedia says the gap between Maori and non-Maori life expectancy fell to 7.1 years by 2012-2014 from 9.1 years in 1995-1997.
        
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        June 9, 2021 8:22pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    The english settlers most important contribution was bringing the most successful democratic system of government. English arrival and partnership in Canada, USA, Australia, and NZ resulted in the most stable government and governance in the world. No dictators throughout history. Almost all the countries we take refugees from is due to political unrest resulting in poverty, war and oppression, not natural disasters. They come here for our English system of government and it’s foundational principles and the resulting prosperity and democratic freedoms afforded to all subjects regardless of race, religion or creed.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:52am
    - SB2
      
      Does that include Cindy and her government?
      
      3 16
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      June 9, 2021 11:02am
      - Keith White
        
        SB: He said democracy, not communism.
        
        16 2
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        June 9, 2021 12:50pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Sanitation. (Thank you, Thomas Crapper.)
    
    22 0
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    June 9, 2021 9:52am
    - rangitoto
      
      As Uncle Al used to say on sci.physics. “Thousands of years and legions of priests, seers and self appointed holy men, result misery. Whereas, a single humble engineer, Thomas Crapper, literally saves humankind from the shit”.
      
      16 1
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      June 9, 2021 9:58am
      - Steve Todd
        
        Never were truer words said.
        
        4 0
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        June 9, 2021 1:52pm
  - surfing
    
    I just don’t think one can absolutely claim that Maori are better off today because of colonisation.
    
    One does not know how Maori may have evolved after contact with the west was established (parallel universe experiment anyone???).
    
    One scenario. In the absence of colonisation, Europeans would have traded with Maori. Regional Maori tribes would do war using western military hardware and eventually a single Maori ‘authority’ may have eventuated… Maori could have traded with the west and adopted western technology and scientific knowledge. And retain sovereignty. Great outcome for Maori.
    
    Alternatively maori may have been wiped out due to war and disease. Similarly to the Inca people.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:56am
    - Unity
      
      “Alternatively maori may have been wiped out due to war and disease. Similarly to the Inca people”.
      
      The way they were warring up and down the country with muskets this is the most likely scenario. However, if they managed to survive the wars, I would imagine New Zealand would be much like the other Islands (Samoa, Tonga etc). So they are definitely much better off surely.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:22am
      - surfing
        
        The Pacific Islands have fewer natural resources, and are more subject to brutal weather.
        
        Maybe you are right, it is really hard to say.
        
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        June 9, 2021 12:34pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Check out PNG for the likely outcome
      
      Internecine tribal warfare and slaughter with a small touch of headhunting and long-pig eating
      
      14 2
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      June 9, 2021 10:54am
    - Adroit
      
      I know what would have happened. It’s called Tonga. A series of big (fat) chief’s ruling over the rest of their people, receiving gib me dats from the International community while their standard of living is third world. Tamaki Makaura would be like Nukuelefa. Rubbish and dead animals in the water.
      
      Quite literally, Maori were stone age 150 years ago. In what world could they have done anything to adapt to the modern world in some way that would make them a functioning democratic state?
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Maori were dead scared in the early 1800’s that their society was disappearing completely. They had ran out of food to sustain themselves and warring tribes were on the hunt for supplies.
      
      NZ is a peculiarity in the Pacific as we do not have a homogeneous Polynesian society but a group of independent warrior tribes who came close to self destruction as if on moa hunt where they succeeded.
      Whalers and other passersby were pleased about the stopover and opportunities which included friendship and trade. They had much more to gain by being watchful and not overtly hostile.
      
      The Treaty was not an instrument of colonisation per se but an instrument of peace. Maori knew the Queen could protect them from each other and the price was agreeable at the time. It did contain some warrior chiefs who may have continued hostilities but even they had to accept their life under the new regime or not at all. In another Pacific country only one tribe would be left to battle out the future and the Island Nations eventually fought each other.
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:27pm
    - david
      
      The House of Saud might be an equivalent outcome. New Zealand as one or two kingdoms with ruling families wielding absolute power (including that of life and death) over the citizens.
      Somehow I don’t think that the Green Party would have gained any traction.
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:15pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Yes you can absolutely claim that Maori are better off today because of colonisation. You can’t formulate a realistic fantasy that would have led to better outcomes given prevailing moralities and technological prowess within Maori without the moral, ethical, governance and technological revolution that colonialism bought in C19th that leapt them 5000 years ahead in 50 years.
      
      Pre-Waitangi maori were ruled by might makes right marital brutality and autocratic dominance within tribes, and perpetual threat of being eaten by other tribes. Slaves, women, children and non-combatants totally subservient to whims of warriors (contemporary accounts of F.E. Manning in “Old New Zealand”) same as was and is the case everywhere else in the world at similar stages of development. Forget the fantasies of noble existences. Lives were short and brutal, life expectancies in the 30’s, 2-3% per year dying to violence (frequently whole villages ended in hangi pits), aside from the consistent misery of hunger for non-warriors in a seasonal climate.
      
      There is ample evidence the world over (including NZ) of how violence and individual misery are dominating features of pre rule-of-law societies, and it takes 5-10,000 years of societal development, with vast numbers of nasty undeserved deaths, with suitable domesticated animals and crops, beyond where C18th Maori were through warring states to eventual technological educated civilisation to bring forth those improvements. It needs pervasive literacy, agriculture, moral and technological advancement amongst large competing populations – impossible in a place as small as NZ where they would have been locked in eternal perpetual conflict. (Read “guns germs steel” by Jarad Diamond)
      
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      June 9, 2021 4:03pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Warm clothing, meat animals, farming technology (and alternative crops), woodworking tools, dentistry, medicine, nails, metal fishing hooks, easy fire making, metal cooking implements…
    
    Maori enjoyed an absolutely enormous improvement in standard of living when Europeans arrived. Sure there were some issues, but overall the nett increase in happiness and diminishment of abject misery was massively to the good side of the ledger.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:49am
  - Keith White
    
    15. Medicine – before birth and through to easing death
    16. Structured education
    17. Dental care
    18. Factory production allowing affordable ownership of the result of one’s labours
    19. The concepts of wages and salaries
    20. The concepts of freedom and democracy
    21. The concept of inherent human worth
    22. The concept that a nation is greater than a tribe
    23. The concept that the family unit is better than a tribe
    24. Gas cooking
    25. Heating by means other than burning wood
    26. Rule of law – including courts of appeal
    27. Civil damages not tutu
    28. Organized policing
    29. The mighty V8
    30. Bacon!!!
    
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    June 9, 2021 12:49pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I’m going to be more interested in the views of someone who conducted his MA History research under Judith Binney, than someone who believes that Maori Literacy and Numeracy was beaten out of her Grandmother.
  
  ( I’ve never come across anyone who has been beaten so hard in school that they lost the ability to read and write and do their sums )
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:55am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    It’s nice to see Goldsmith is concentrating on his field of expertise, history, instead of finance.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:08am
    - Fidel Cashflow
      
      At least he has a field of expertise mike.
      
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      June 9, 2021 9:32am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Perhaps you need to read his history of NZ’s tax system
      https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1467-8446.2010.00278.x
      
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      June 9, 2021 9:34am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Of just his hagiographies John Banks and Don Brash?
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:41am
    - Yabster
      
      hes written a book on Maori History and the Native land Court- so he will know a lot more than you Milk- he is also lives in a free country so can have an opinion- thats allowed in our country still is it not (not so much lately…)
      
      2nd dan Black belt- so he can kick your ass also….
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:18am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Phew Mike. It’d be nice to see Jacinda Ardern concentrate on her field of expertise as well. Not that anyone could name it. How about Grant Robertson concentrating on his? Not that anyone could name it.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:25am
    - Littletramp
      
      Isn’t Goldsmith a National spokesman for Education, where Labour wants to create a NZ history curriculum. Surely that gives him the voice to have a representative opinion on this.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:34am
- cmm
  
  You get what you reward.
  
  There are huge rewards in squealing about colonialism, and continuously shaking down whitey. Therefore we can expect to keep hearing more.
  
  If there was any incentive in following rational debate and discussion we’d be getting more of that, but no rewards in that.
  
  But I’ll bite….
  
  If colonialism is Evil, then who are the colonialists that should be paying up to make it all better?
  
  To make it interesting, let’s raise a few points:
  1) Most “Maori” are less 50% or less Maori genetics and are thus, more coloniser than colonised. Most should thus be paying into the koha, not taking from it.
  If the goal of “correcting” the situation is to reimburse people for the losses suffered by their ancestors then let’s make it fair, all reimbursements should be made on a percentage basis:
  * People with 100% Maori genes get 100% payout and 0% pay in.
  * People with 0% Maori genes get 0% payout and 100% pay in.
  * People at 50% pay out as much as they pay in and get zero because they partially lost and partially gained.
  
  That could be fair (assuming the concept of reimbursement is fair). See how well that goes down though.
  
  2) What about people who never colonised and are not descendant from those that colonised NZ? For example, me and my family. My gene pool only arrived in NZ 29 years ago. You can’t really blame me for the Musket Wars. I didn’t steal anyone’s land. I didn’t gain personally from colonisation. Should I really be labelled an Evil Coloniser?
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:03am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    I didn’t steal anyone’s land. I didn’t gain personally from colonisation.
    
    Perhaps you should be contributing to compensation for the victims of colonization in the and your forbearears colonized.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:10am
    - cmm
      
      So this is “sins of the father” stuff is it?
      
      If so, then surely I should be repaid for the good things my ancestors did too.
      
      Many of my grandparents (and great grandparents) spent years of their lives in the military in various places in Africa liberating the people from worse forms of colonisation (eg. German) and fighting the Arabian slave traders thus freeing tens of thousands of Africans from a life of slavery.
      
      If I have to pay for the “sins” of my great grandparents, then surely I can put in a claim for the good things they did too. Wouldn’t that be fair?
      
      This is really just another form of Original Sin, for which the Catholic church is chastised.
      
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      June 9, 2021 9:33am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I must have misinterpreted your comment. I thought you were dissociating yourself from the downside of colonisation on the grounds that your ancestors didn’t do the colonising. Now I see that you had no problems with colonisation, and are proud that it was your ancestors who did it, because they were better than Germans or Arabs.
        
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        June 9, 2021 9:55am
      - cmm
        
        mma You’re twisting what I said.
        
        Can you not even agree that British Colonialism is better than German Colonialism?
        
        And please stop picking on me. I am also the victim of colonialism. My people (British) were colonised by the Romans. I still haven’t had any compensation from Italy.
        
        Of course this is all nonsense: without Roman colonisation Great Britain/UK would not exist. Great Britain was the greatest force for liberalism that ever existed. Without Great Britain doing what it did (especially committing its military in the fight for good) there would still be large scale slavery in the world. Nobody has put in more effort fighting slavery than the Brits. And without Roman colonialism 2000-odd years ago, Britain would never have grown past being a bunch of woads living in the bush.
        
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        June 9, 2021 12:26pm
    - Fidel Cashflow
      
      What are you contributing mike? You’re evidently a guilt-ridden, self-loathing penant so it must be substantial.
      
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      June 9, 2021 9:35am
      - Simon
        
        “What are you contributing mike? ”
        
        Yep hand over half your wealth to a Iwi or give up your job to a Maori. Led by example and you might persuade us. Otherwise you are full of shit calling on others to make compensation. You first.
        
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        June 9, 2021 9:54am
      - Yabster
        
        he pays in pencils and sits in a corner every day and repeats i am a worthless coloniser- but it still doesn’t seem to be enough- poor milky.
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:23am
    - amospicton
      
      The assumption that any New Zealander with ancestors from the UK is a ‘coloniser’ is just nonsense. Why did most emigrate to New Zealand? Not because they were enjoying the fruits of colonisation back in the motherland. Most came here to escape a very tough life in the UK – they were, in most cases, ‘victims’ of one for or anotrher as well. Quite why their descendents are therefore guilty of colonisation is beyond me.
      
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      June 9, 2021 9:50am
    - Yabster
      
      whats with the americanised spelling milkdud?
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:21am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      I think that would be a dumb move mike. Compensation to who? I think you forget that the Maori were not one people when Europeans arrived. They were tribal and brutally so, killing, eating and enslaving each other (who would have thought, black|brown people as slave owners!), and essentially colonising the areas they invaded. The Eurpoean colonisers could, in the fullness of time, have wiped the Maori out, but didn’t. So let’s leave it at that shall we?
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:35am
      - Steve Todd
        
        @IVV @ 10:35AM
        
        Regarding your two uses of the expression “the Maori”. In both cases, the “the” was superfluous and, in fact, incorrect.
        
        Hopefully, many other Kiwibloggers will take note.
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:29am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Were Maori colonisers or consumers?
        They certainly forced their battle success on others.
        
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        June 9, 2021 12:54pm
    - Keith White
      
      mma: Yeah, my ancestors never colonized anyone but that did not stop the National Socialists of the Thousand Year Elections putting them in camps to starve and be worked to death. So you know where you can go with that juvenile horsepuckey equivalence you’re huckstering.
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:53pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    “Should I really be labelled an Evil Coloniser?
    
    According to Critical Race Theory, yes.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:14am
    - Fidel Cashflow
      
      I wonder what the ancestors of the Spartans are paying out to the ancestors of the Messenians and Lakonians.
      
      Human history is the history of conquest and colonisation. To cherry pick only the Whites being nasty to POCs is just an ideological and political expedient. If we were to sum up all such activity over the ages, it would probably be a net zero outcome.
      
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      June 9, 2021 9:43am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Perhaps we should all return to Africa and start off afresh ~~colonising~~ venturing forth into new habitats.
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:09am
      - Yabster
        
        correct-or the Italians should be paying the picts/Britions, not to mention the Germans and the French who colonised the UK –
        Not to mention Maori colonising NZ……
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:27am
      - Jack5
        
        Perhaps the Romans did pay off the Picts, Yabster.
        
        They didn’t conquer them.
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:38am
  - Surely Knott
    
    What about white NZers who have been here for longer and have been here contributing for generations and have no other country and no other passports. We are the stateless people in a country that currently despises us, that tells us our people have made no contribution, and that our skin colour and contribution has been of no value, only racist and supremacist. We cannot go home. We have no other passport. This is our home. If I am actually British can I have my passport please. And will Britain recognise me as indigenous and can I get prioritised medical care or land there? Will people who arrived to Britain later and of different skin colours compensate me? Who is privileged in this scenario. Why is it far right to oppose immigration, yet it is ok for first people to so hatefully oppose the second wave of immigration. Is that far right?
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:00am
    - tf78
      
      I like this quote which I purloined from a TV show “It’s not for you to make someone unwelcome in the place they know as home”.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:24am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      What about white NZers who have been here for longer and have been here contributing for generations and have no other country and no other passports.
      
      Or the tan-shaded folk:
      Chinese
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/05/new-zealand-chinese-community-invisible-in-draft-history-curriculum-professor.html
      
      Indian:
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/voices/audio/2018650477/voices-indians-in-new-zealand-since-1769
      
      Middle-Eastern:
      https://teara.govt.nz/en/middle-eastern-peoples/page-1
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:52am
  - alex Masterley
    
    I am in the 2) camp.
    My forebears arrived around 1900 in Lyttleton. my Great Grandfather and his wife acquired land through the post ww1 ballots in South Otago and ultimately fetched up on a farm/orchard in the Heathcote Valley.
    Other than the ballot all land my great grandfather, grandfather, father and myself have owned have been paid for. They were all too busy working to steal land. myself included.
    
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    June 9, 2021 2:54pm
- nathie
  
  The fact that (racist radicals like) the Maori Party and some of the Greens are in Government … does that mean they have become “the Crown”?
  
  In other words, has Colonialism (in the end, which is what Paul Goldmsith was talking about) brought tremendous progress to this nation that we can have the likes of Marama Davidson and Debbie Ngarewa-Packer (clearly a mix of Maori and European, but that’s another story) sitting at the top table? That of, being in government?
  
  And them, as individuals (not Paramount Chiefs, for example)?
  
  Is this no longer worth celebrating in their eyes?
  
  Isn’t this is what Paul Goldsmith is saying (and supporting)?
  
  Reminds me of that Far Side cartoon – same planet, but different worlds!
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:07am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  The question is not well posed and cannot be answered.
  
  Without colonisation our country and the people who live in it today would not exist. Some other country inhabited by other people would exist, but why should we care about them when they are only hypothetical and we are real?
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:53am
cmm

Putting a bunch of older, vulnerable people in the CBD infested by muggers. How can this be a good idea?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/property/125373616/ryman-agrees-to-rework-large-retirement-village-design-after-neighbour-backlash
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June 9, 2021 8:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The nursing homes are not typically visited by muggers who don’t like the sign in procedures.
  The rework of siting requirements seems reasonable. Good site.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:12pm
Simon

The delta variant panic. Look at these clowns. After the S Africa, Brazil & Indian variant. Now delta.

You would have to a real zero covid nutjob or utter sheep to believe this rubbish.
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June 9, 2021 8:25am
- NK
  
  ??????
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:29am
- Tempist
  
  I thought the ‘delta variant’ was the new title for the Indian variant, because it was wacist to refer to it as Indian….
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:49am
  - tf78
    
    Tempist, funny how the Spanish never seem to complain about “The Spanish Flu” which had nothing what so ever to do with Spain.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:27am
    - Tempist
      
      Apparently it was first widely reported in Spain hence it became ‘Spanish’ but this was largely due to the fact that other European countries had limits on press reporting due to being at War, and reporting a pandemic probably did suit the narrative. It’s speculated to have originated in France or US or possibly even China
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The delta variant is the new name for an Indian variant.
  
  It’s not PC to name nasty things after countries….
  Renaming COVID-19 variants will help fight racism
  https://www.arabnews.com/node/1872256
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:00am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    What crap. The people of the Kent were not all offended by the naming of the Kent variant. They had more serious stuff to worry about than the name.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:05am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Loads of nasty diseases named after places…
      
      Geographic eponyms: A history of geography in medicine
      
      https://www.nmji.in/temp/NatlMedJIndia293166-8144469_223724.pdf
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:39am
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  Not enough people willing to take the insufficiently tested vaccine that they don’t need, I suppose. We need “variants” galore to stoke the fires of fear. I tuned out of the Covid hysteria about a year ago.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:46am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You think variants are imaginary? Do you know the meaning?
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:45am
    - Fidel Cashflow
      
      Claims of “new variants” are rhetorical devices designed to keep people on edge. They act as new fear-inducing stimuli that are rolled-out to the gullible when the existing stimuli eventually and inevitably lose their efficacy. It’s just a game. It’s less about medical science as it is about politics and advertising.
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:13am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Bullshit
        
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        June 9, 2021 6:08pm
cmm

Now that the FBI (and friends) have blown the secrecy of their Anom “secure” comms app, how long before the gangs get their own IT departments to set up their own private comms links that they can trust?

The gangs are getting more organised: PR departments etc. Why not hire a few programmers too?
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June 9, 2021 8:29am
- NK
  
  They have their own P cooks. It’s bound to happen.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:30am
  - kowtow
    
    And lawyers and accountants.
    
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    June 9, 2021 8:34am
- MrTips
  
  They already do. The Macedonians, Indians and Nigerians are WAY ahead of this. The Mafia are one step better. They own IT security companies.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:35am
- I remember when
  
  Did the FBI (and Friends) not learn anything from Bletchley Park.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:36am
  - kowtow
    
    Yep , they’re cackling very loudly over their golden egg , which won’t really be that golden at all , as the vacancies will already be filled .
    
    I’ve noticed a tendency these last few years for Top Cops at news conferences to tell us all how proud they are of this achievement or that , and yet the streets are increasingly dangerous .
    
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    June 9, 2021 8:59am
  - cmm
    
    I suspect the difference is that Bletchley Park never had to show their workings in a court of law.
    
    The FBI probably had to spill the beans on how their op works to get a prosecution to stick and ensure the evidence was admissible. What they did is sailing pretty close to the wind in terms of warrants to wire tap etc.
    
    So once the cat is out the bag the whole op gets compromised and there’s a mad rush to use all the evidence while it is still fresh.
    
    It is a pity they didn’t do a better job of partitioning the app – multiple “skins” and different servers/interfaces. That way they might have been able to compromise just some of the operations and not the whole lot.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:40am
- MCos
  
  According to ‘BeeJay’ above the gangs don’t have the skill to do that.
  In my view it can be a fatal mistake to underestimate the resourcefulness of the opposition.
  
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  June 9, 2021 4:22pm
Cassandra

Today is World Gin Day (sorry, Milky). Well, according to the Telegraph, so it’s probably tomorrow here. As an act of international cooperation let’s celebrate on both days.
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June 9, 2021 8:32am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Sorry, but World Gin Day is the second Saturday in June. So not till 12 June.
  But today is Coral Triangle Day, a celebration of marine biodiversity.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:18am
  - Cassandra
    
    International Gin and Tonic Day is the 19th of October, so my inclination is towards Labour voting rules* – early and often. The Telegraph article which said Gin Day is today was sponsored by Tanqueray. Presumable starting on the 9th gets you into fine form by the 12th.
    *for Milky
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:11am
I remember when

Newsroom article saying Nash should return donations from forestry sources.
Is this part of a push to stop donations from the public and move to central allocations.
Another Labour Government directive to a compliant media.
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June 9, 2021 8:32am
Tomsk

Its not only Climate Change scientists and their believers who are corrupt . Read this article about scientists trying to publish articles about the origin of Covid.
https://unherd.com/2021/06/beijings-useful-idiots/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups%5B0%5D=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=7539bd6e01&mc_eid=bc51e76749
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June 9, 2021 8:33am
MrTips

I am not a betting man, despite my name, but one senses Nicola Willis is a name that will become much more palatable nationally in the next 12 months.
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June 9, 2021 8:34am
- Steve Todd
  
  I sang Nicola Willis’s praises three months ago, here: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/03/general_debate_11_march_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-2904864.
  
  While her name may well “become much more palatable nationally in the next 12 months”, she is still going to have to wait until at least late-2026 before she acquires (any sort of) political power.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:07am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Why do you think so? If Judith resigns or got hit by a bus tomorrow who would be better than Nicola?
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:14am
    - Steve Todd
      
      In my view, no-one. But National / ACT NZ will not take “the Treasury benches” after the next election.
      
      Opining this far out, I realise I’m being a bit “heroic”, but, as I said on Saturday, here: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/06/general_debate_05_june_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-2952208, we are likely to have our first Labour-Green majority government after the 2023 election.
      
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      June 9, 2021 9:31am
      - Tall Man
        
        Maate ya dreaming.
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:38am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        With Ardern self destructing?
        When will her and her gulliblement actually achieve anything for New Zealand other than all hui no doi and self rising prices aplenty?
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:18pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Tall Man @ 11:38AM
        
        At the moment, Labour and the Greens have a total of 75 seats. Given the current polls, and the current state of the National Party, it is difficult to see a change of government in 2023. But, it is certainly possible to see Labour dropping from 65 to (say) 56, and for the Greens to drop from 10 to eight.
        
        Never forget, Tall Man, that our opinions mean nothing. If any of us were to take even a cursory look at the comments made by Kiwibloggers in the months leading up to the election last October, we would see, with the obvious benefit of hindsight, that most of them (not including myself, obviously), were “dreaming”.
        
        So, in short, I say to you, Tall Man: Time will tell.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:22pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Nicola has a lot of appeal. My partners always been very choosy and even he finds her attractive.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:35am
Simon

Neo-lib clown show.

Clark government: Large increase in private debt
Key government: open doors immigration. (If you had some money the door was open.)
Cindy gubermint: money printing.

What next? Inflation for sure.

I suspect after a couple year’s pause massive immigration from the third world.
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June 9, 2021 8:37am
- Tall Man
  
  With what’s coming to NZ I doubt many third world immigrants will be that keen to get here…. other than as a stepping stone to Oz.
  
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  June 9, 2021 11:37am
Maggy Wassilieff

Nothing being achieved to prevent family violence and sexual violence in NZ.

Even though millions of $$$$ have been put into programmes since 2018.

Reason: Government Departments don’t work together and don’t manage their Joint ventures with Community Groups and Māori very well.

In a report released today, John Ryan said only limited changes have been seen in how government agencies work together.

The joint venture was established in 2018 to transform how government agencies work together with Māori, and with service providers, to tackle the problem.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/significant-improvements-needed-in-governments-joint-venture-family-sexual-violence-auditor-general
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June 9, 2021 8:38am
- Ruahine
  
  It’s a great lark. The more you give the ‘missus’ a bit of a ‘tuneup’ the more ‘help’ comes flowing in.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:49am
RW Capitalist

A few points from today.
1. Nurses on strike, on the AMShow the nurses rep. recons they are “owed” for their support of Labour.
Q: What did dishonest Jacinda promise them?
2. 1mill vaccine doses “secured” for July. BUT I thought they had already “secured” enough for everyone.
2a. They also say 50000 per day to be delivered to patients…..so….by the end of July we run out again and only 20% of the population vaccinated by August.
2b Q. When is the following delivery, will it too only be 1 mill doses?

Which Xmas can we expect herd immunity?
2025?
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June 9, 2021 8:39am
- RW Capitalist
  
  How long have people waited/ been waiting for their 2nd vaccine dose?
  Considering, from today the next delivery could be more than (the extended) recommendation of 42 days by the CDC.
  https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-it-safe-to-delay-a-second-covid-vaccine-dose/
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:44am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    ie anyone who got their first dose before 19/5/21
    will have expired by 1/7/21?
    If they can’t start delivering (into arms) till 31/7/21, It’s already too late for people getting jabbed today.
    Does this mean they have to start all over again?
    How much waste?
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:46am
  - alwyn
    
    “How long have people waited/ been waiting for their 2nd vaccine dose”.
    What do you mean second dose? I would like to know when I can get a first dose. The were supposed to be available to people like me (upper 70s with a couple of medical problems) way back from the beginning of May. Progress in finding out what is going on? ZERO.
    However I see that our PM, suffering from Cabin Fever, is going to get her vaccinations and start her overseas travelling again. What is it about politicians that they find it necessary to go on world tours whenever thing get a bit sticky at home?
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:56am
    - Steve Todd
      
      I would like to know when I can get a first dose.
      
      I sympathise with you, alwyn. I’m younger than you, but I’m in Group 3, and have no idea when I’ll get my first jab. (Then again, at this stage, I’m not overly concerned about it.) I am, though, envious of Tony Charles, who is several years younger than me, getting his first jab tomorrow!
      
      Regarding your second paragraph. Your attitude is pretty much what I predicted, back on Sunday, 23 May, here: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/05/general_debate_23_may_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-2944645. Whatever the prime minister ended up doing, regarding her jabs, Kiwibloggers were always going to find a way to criticise her. Very disappointing.
      
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      June 9, 2021 11:05am
      - Tall Man
        
        There’s no “I” in team Steve.
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:36am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        As I understand it from someone at the rockface, the problem is not a shortage of vaccines, but a shortage of vaccinators.
        Wonder Woman and Chippy are being very quiet about this and the paid media are not asking the questions.
        
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        June 9, 2021 12:17pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        This is a courtesy response, Tall Man.
        
        Um, I don’t quite get what you’re saying. Sorry.
        
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        June 9, 2021 4:11pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        I meant to say I’m envious of Tony Stuart. Sorry, Tony.
        
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        June 10, 2021 8:13am
    - Keith White
      
      She can leave anytime without a jab, she’ll just need to do 2 weeks in a managed isolation facility upon return. Should be great as she and her team set up and are managing those very same facilities she’d inhabit one of. What could possibly go wrong?
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:56pm
- artemisia
  
  Nurses on strike. Ok, that is their right. But 17% pay rise? Really? That would open a floodgate of parity claims. No doubt most do a good job, same as most employees in every sector.
  
  Not long ago Capital Coast Health had a shortage of midwives and brought in a dozen or so from the Philippines. Fully trained. Just saying.
  
  (We have rentals near Wellington Hospital. Hospital staff from the Philippines are always top of our tenant list.)
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:35am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Promises made and not kept, by Jacinda?
    In secret to the nurses, because they never announced anything…ever.
    Spending borrowed money like water (eg cycle bridges in Auckland) so gives nurses pause for thought.
    The reason there were no nurses strikes under National.
    1. Managed expectations.
    2. Proper budgetary constrain (even though there were a few slip ups…. MBIE head office)
    3. At least a passing understanding that it is “Taxpayers money”.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:53am
  - alwyn
    
    You are aware I assume that the 17% was a parity claim? It was because HCAs in a DHB were paid that much less than people doing the same job in an Aged Care Facility.
    At least that was how it was explained to me.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:04am
    - Keith White
      
      In terms of pay parity, Ardern is the 7th highest paid elected head of state in the world and the 5th highest paid in the OECD (behind Singapore, Hongkong, US and Oz from memory – Newshub article from 2019). So will she agree that our nurses here in NZ could also be paid the 5th – or even the 7th – highest rate for nurses? Yeah, right, Tui.
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:58pm
  - Tall Man
    
    And when clear concise and accurate communication is critical to your treatment I know what language I would want my nurce to be proficient in.
    
    A year or so ago I had the misfortune to need an emergency admittance and my Filipina nurse accessed the cupboards in the treatment room then left the room to get what she needed all the while wearing gloves covered in my blood.
    
    Now I’m not a namby pamby sook like some on here and wasn’t too bothered about the transference potential outside and inside the room but that is well against protocol.
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:33am
  - Paulus
    
    Understand that Nurses settlement is a pre cursor to Teachers demands.
    
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    June 9, 2021 2:01pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      What is your basis for that understanding, Paulus?
      
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      June 9, 2021 2:44pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      That may be the union’s, but I doubt it is the nurses’ strategy. They are pissed off with the stupidity of management and trying to get things done despite impediments and budget shortfalls. Govt won’t stump up cash for shortfalls, instead investing in Robbo’s Office slush fund, ($926Million), Lycra Wet Dreams ($685 Million), and nail polish and lipstick for photo ops.
      
      No to mention the $60 Million spent on Little’s Golden Goose Mine. And $200 Billion on Covid-19.
      
      For most Nurses and frontline staff, it is not just a job, it is their chosen occupation and ‘calling’ in life’. Yes, for a militant few, and of course the union ‘heads’ it will be a leverage game.
      
      If working conditions are shit, and you have to continually challenge the system and others incompetence, then yes, more money is a carrot to stay in the job. I’m against unions but this is more than a union strike. But yes, the union will be manipulating the nurses, but not all.
      
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      June 9, 2021 7:41pm
  - surfing
    
    Yes, we could replace our entire workforce with people from the Philippines.
    
    We’d save a ton of money.
    
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    June 9, 2021 2:32pm
- cmm
  
  There will never be herd immunity against a virus like this.
  
  They’re already talking about yearly vaccinations like the flu vaccine. No herd immunity for flu.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:13am
Cobolt24

I was listening near the end of Marcus Lush’s show on ZB last night. It was grating even for the short time, first he called Goldsmith’s comments “career ending”.
Just before the next guy he says it’s your lucky day” that it’s one of the Tims and not Bruce Russel on next after him.
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June 9, 2021 8:42am
- Steve Todd
  
  Oh, poor Cobolt.
  
  That’s nothing compared to the relentless, daily bagging of the government by the likes of Hosking and du Plessis-Allan.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:19am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s tough on Cobolt alright, being forced to listen to Marcus Lush…
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:29am
  - Cobolt24
    
    I was trying to say the comments were not as dramatic as he made out but, calling them “career ending” is hyperbole.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:44am
  - Yabster
    
    Someone has to do it- wish there was more of them- as the rest of msm are bought and paid for by the lefty socialist governemnet.
    
    Colbolt your choice to listen to Lush- but expect that sort of comment if you do.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:33am
- Gravelroad
  
  Yep, it beats me why people keep ringing in to Lush’s “show” and why advertisers keep supporting it with cash.
  Mr Lush often has to beg people to phone up and then routinely abuses them and arrogantly dismisses their views.
  But he is clearly left wing and a fanboy for Jacinda so his policy of cancelling callers with whom he does not agree is acceptable.
  Yet I still occasionally listen. Interesting to hear how a half-baked radio jock is allowed to get away with what he does.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:23am
  - Steve Todd
    
    But he is clearly left wing and a fanboy for Jacinda […].
    
    And what’s wrong with that? Bruce Russell is clearly right-wing, not to mention extremely prickly, and far more rude towards, and dismissive of, his callers, than Marcus Lush.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:04am
    - lifesgood
      
      Totally untrue about Bruce Russell. And, unlike Lush, he is well informed on the day’s issues.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:54am
  - Miritu
    
    ” it beats me why people keep ringing in to Lush’s “show”…. Yet I still occasionally listen”
    and also promote his show on Kiwiblog.
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:06am
- Inandout
  
  Cobolt, Marcus is an enigma in the late night radio host scene. How he survives when very, very few bother to call him amazes me.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:26am
  - Cobolt24
    
    Agree with both you and Gravelroad. He has a hard time getting callers yet the after midnight show never has that problem, even after 1AM in the morning there’s a steady stream.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:48am
    - Steve Todd
      
      I think that’s because there aren’t the same “commercial imperatives”, and that, consequently, callers know they are likely to be able to have an extended conversation with the host — even when that host is Bruce Russell.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:11am
  - Sacha
    
    What’s the betting he will be the next Mayor of Invercargill when Tim Retires?
    Name familiarity will get him there.
    He has a habit of lecturing callers who don’t agree with him, telling them the they need to adjust their attitude, or that they are ignorant . . . . . . pot/kettle I’d say.
    Having said that I have to say that I do not listen to his sessions for very long. I guess my attitude and ignorance save me.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:20am
- graham
  
  I have listened to Marcus Lush a few times – maybe half a dozen – over the past two years. I usually end up switching off after a few minutes, because I don’t enjoy listening to what sounds like a very unprofessional radio host. Long gaps of silence while he’s trying to think of something to say, lots of umms, and lots of pleading for people to call.
  
  The other point that always struck me was he seemed to do virtually no research or preparation for his show. I was astounded to hear him once say that he was unaware of a particular story which had been all over the news that day, explaining that he hadn’t “had time” to listen to the radio or watch the news or check any news websites. For someone who was hosting a talkback show – where you might reasonably expect people to phone up and want to discuss the big news of the day – this seemed stunningly lazy.
  
  I just hope he can be bothered to do a little more research when he’s on council.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:39am
  - lifesgood
    
    I wish Newstalk would get rid of him. He does them no favours. I agree with every thing you say about him. I have done the same, tuned in for a few minutes and then turned off. Please Newstalk, get someone decent on. Please.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:51am
alex Masterley

What do you want more?
A bridge for cyclists and pedestrians over the Waitemata, or better pay for Nurses?
I know what i would choose.
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June 9, 2021 8:50am
- MCos
  
  The bridge is way down the track, if at all, but the nurses need their extra money right now.
  Furthmore I somehow suspect the bridge is of little consequence to most people.
  
  How about a more meaningful option that effect most of the population, for example, would you be prepared to pay more tax in order that nurses could have a pay increase?
  Alternatively if money is to be shuffled around should it come out of the roading budget, or cancel the vaccine programme?
  
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  June 9, 2021 4:39pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    It could come out of the $926 Million Deputy PM’s implementation slush fund. Remember? The slush fund set up to manage and oversee the projects that the Fish and Chip wrapper is supposed to do as her job as PM, but can’t because she is incompetent.
    
    $926 Million because we the Labour voters hired a dud. Can you imagine the uproar if Fonterra added $926 Million in costs to do hire a team to do what the CEO is employed to do?
    
    $926 Million buys a lot of ~~press secretaries~~ propaganda writers in order to ~~implement~~ avoid implementing projects. An additional $926 Million for project implementation, and then they go and cancel already planned roading projects.
    
    And they had the gall to call it a Ministry of ~~Implementation~~ Propaganda.
    
    I guess ~~water~~ money is leaking out of the Labour boat, so they have to invent fancy budget labels to cover up out of control squandering.
    
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    June 9, 2021 7:25pm
Libertarians are right

Without colonisation Maori would have wiped themselves out. In fact, that’s explicitly why Maori chiefs asked the Queen to take over and why most of the Chiefs signed the Treaty in the first place.

For the record – existing on balance is better than not existing.
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June 9, 2021 8:59am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  The Maori had a chronic energy shortage–limited carbohydrate sources. Deforestation through burning can’t have been good for the environment.
  Perhaps in time the Maori would have gone the way of the Easter Islanders.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:17am
  - Oskar
    
    If I am wrong on this I am sure that Maggy Wassilieff will correct me on this as she is a botanist but my understanding that for early Maori there was a carbohydrate deficient as the kumera could only grow in the more northern regions. The alternative was bracken roots – and bracken grew on open ground not under forest – so Maori had to practice a form of slash and burn agriculture. Bracken roots yield a low value carbohydrate and take a lot of preparations – see http://www.temarareo.org/TMR-Aruhe.html
    What’s more the plants are both toxic and carcinogenic so proper preparation is vital.
    So one benefit of colonisation would be the introduction of things like potatoes and European livestock that solved both the carbohydrate and protein deficits.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:50am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The locations where kumara grew certainly supported the greatest population densities. There were plenty of other sources of food though. Plenty of other societies have flourished in less promising conditions than southern NZ.
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:52pm
    - Keith White
      
      Their protein was from dogs and rats. Their major food group was almost exclusively fish and variants – eels etc.
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:00pm
      - Oskar
        
        When the Maori arrived it was right at the tail end of a warm spell. They found plentiful food – esp in the South Island with Moa (I understand Moa is the Polynesian word for chicken). The population expanded and the easy food was hunted out. Then in the 1500’s the world temperature started to cool and stayed cool until the mid 180’s – the so called Little Ice Age. This restricted where their crops could be grown and generally forced the population north – esp.in the lower South Island.
        Marine mammals did move into the new niches and did provide food. The world was starting to warm up again just when the Europeans arrived with new plants and livestock – see link for climate change effects – https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/91730312/penguins-and-sea-lions-beat-a-retreat-to-nz-during-the-little-ice-age-otago-research
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:34pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      You are spot on.
      
      What many folks don’t seem to realise is that the kumara varieties growing in NZ at the moment are fairly recent imports :
      https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/20014/common-varieties-of-kumara
      
      The kumara varieties grown by pre-European Maori were much smaller (finger-sized) and not heavy croppers.
      https://teara.govt.nz/en/kumara/page-1
      
      Maori were quick to take up potato cultivation when they realised how well the plants cropped and how far south they could be cultivated.
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:35pm
      - Jack5
        
        Did kumera grow south of about Kaikoura?
        
        It was sometimes suggested that the far sparser Maori population in the South Island, a population confined to the coastline, was because of lack of kumera for a staple food.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:04pm
      - Fuzzysnuggleduck
        
        Jack5, I forget the line where the crop wasn’t successful, but I do recall that in archeological surveys there is a unique oven type -umu-ti, for cooking the long tap-root of the cabbage tree due to lack of starchy carbohydrates in the south.
        In addition to the slash and burn and degree of preparation required for fern root, I was told by an archeologist that people dont eat this today even ask bush food since it is carcinogenic.
        
        I find the pre-European period and material culture/artefacts fascinating.
        I see the pre-European period for what it was, and what it was not. Hardly a utopia. The kind of place someone might want to visit, but wouldn’t want to live there.
        Another thing which wasn’t present for instance was WOOL – and if you are outside, or even inside, freezing your arse off in NZ winter….consider using woven flax fibre for warmth, or kiwi or dog fur if you were high born.
        The old life had its appeal, but it was hard and short.
        Skeletal deformations in forensic studies from archaeological sites show even the wear and tear visible on bone. Heavy loads being carried, hard labours.
        Hardly like the ‘nephs on the couch’ lifestyle for many today.
        I would say the supposedly short lifespan of modern Maori compared to others oft-lamented today is a half truth.
        Life has never been better, and the diseases like obesity, heart disease and diabetes and all due to over indulgence in the trappings of the modern world rather than poverty.
        Same for fat whities too. A lot more fatties these days compared with even the 1970s….But unfortunately whitey can’t blame others for what they put in their pie hole.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:42pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It grew poorly in some coastal locations around Banks Peninsula.
        https://www.doc.govt.nz/documents/science-and-technical/sap235.pdf
        
        Basically it is a tropical species plant.
        
        Northern NZ was really the limit for reliable production of its tubers.
        
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        June 9, 2021 3:16pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Six months.
    
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    June 9, 2021 1:23pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  That’s completely incorrect.
  The Musket War had finished by the mid-1830s as a new balance of power had been achieved. Maori did not ‘ask the queen to takeover’: they most likely saw the advantages of a British governor controlling the Europeans who had already settled in the country.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:22am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    Another honky putting ideas into the heads and ascribing motivations to Maori of the 19th century. That reeks of smug White privilege, mike.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:51am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Sure, when Libertarians are right ascribes their motivations it’s okay though?
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:36am
      - Fidel Cashflow
        
        Is this the whataboutism you love to assert when you are backed into a corner? Focus: I’m talking about you, not someone else.
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:52am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Okay. I said what Maori ‘likely’ saw as advantages. And much more likely than the crackpot theories often advanced here: that the Maori were dying out, that they would have killed each other off, that they were afraid of the French, etc, etc.
        
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        June 9, 2021 12:50pm
  - Cobolt24
    
    I thought there were some battles which did flare up again, even into the early 1850s or at least post-treaty. I couldn’t find a source after a quick Google but I had it here somewhere.
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:51am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yes, there was Tribal fighting in Northland well into the 1840s.
      
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagstaff_War#Battle_of_Te_Ahuahu
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:25am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Part of the northern War – very different from the Musket Wars. After 1840, fighting between tribes was always in the context of the colonial government being on one side or the other.
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:32am
      - Tall Man
        
        That is absolute rubbish mikey. Time to put your stupidity away for the day and spend it reading a tad more.
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:26am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        There is still tribal fighting.
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:24pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Just because the musket war had finished doesn’t mean that all the Iwi had peaceful intentions with each other.
    A number of Maori chiefs actually petitioned the King (I think) to help against the French.
    They did however sign the Treaty to give Governance (the Maori version) over the lands to the Queen which was far more than simply controlling the Europeans (it’s effectively taking over). Handing over Governance (again, the Maori version) is asking her to take over. It mostly removed the threat of inter-tribal warfare which was massively advantageous to most Iwi. It also removed a large number of resource related issues that were driving war as NZ becoming a colony brought in massive resources to NZ which wouldn’t have happened without the English having skin in the game.
    
    The Queen didn’t actually want another colony, but saw it as her duty to protect the settlors from Maori and Maori from the Settlors.
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:58am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      No Maori petitioned the King or Queen for help against the French. The French presence in NZ was extremely limited.
      The ToW did not ‘remove the threat of inter-tribal warfare’. The British did not possess any forces that could have prevented such warfare (never mind that the Musket Wars were already over, anyway). And when the British did bring in substantial forces, for the Northern War in 1845, they were unable to prevail.
      Your last point has some validity, although Queen Victoria had no personal interest in the matter. There was concern in Britain about the state of affairs in new Zealand, especially from the missionary societies. Another prime reason for the annexation was the plan by the NZ company to establish large-scale settlements.
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:44pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        “Māori made numerous, sometimes successful, attempts to speak directly to the British monarch in the 19th and early 20th century. The first occurred in 1831, when a group of chiefs wrote to William IV, asking that he protect them from the French.”
        
        From the Encyclopedia of NZ (a .govt site).
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:18pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That’s just bollocks. There was no threat from the French.
        
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        June 9, 2021 5:27pm
      - Jack5
        
        Re Milky’s 5.27 post …
        
        This is from the official Encyclopedia of New Zealand:
        
        In 1838 Jean François Langlois, commander of the whaling ship Cachalot, embarked on a grandiose scheme for a French colony at Akaroa. After a dubious land purchase from Maori he established the Nanto-Bordelaise Company in France in 1839 to carry out the project. King Louis-Philippe agreed to provide assistance.
        
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        June 9, 2021 8:05pm
      - Mike
        
        Never amounted to much, did it, Jack?
        
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        June 9, 2021 9:06pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  I don’t get how the Maori practices of slavery, cannibalism and savage deadly tribal wars are simply overlooked. School children studying the new history curriculum will think that New Zealand was this magic fairyland before the 19th century. Then they will be anxious and full of guilt over their white privilege. Add climate change and they will be non stop anxious.
  
  I used to be ambivalent about private schools. No longer. Send your children to the best private school you can afford. Even better send them to a good private school in Australia as a border.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:23am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Are ‘tribal’ wars more savage and deadly than wars between ‘civilised’ societies?
    
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    June 9, 2021 9:51am
    - Cassandra
      
      Civilized societies don’t eat prisoners.
      
      28 4
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      June 9, 2021 10:16am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Just immolate them fire-bombing, or exterminate them in gas chambers. Much better
        
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        June 9, 2021 10:34am
      - Cassandra
        
        Civilized societies try to avoid atrocities. However, WW2 (Milky is obviously referring to Dresden) was a fight for survival. On balance I think Dresden and Hiroshima were appropriate. Nazi extermination was not by a civilized society. But whatever, Maori society pre 1840 was pretty brutal. If you think that’s OK then that’s your problem. I think Goldsmith is right – on balance agreeing to British rule was beneficial to NZ incl Maori, for all the bad things – the good outweighs them. And if not the Brits, then try the Germans!
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:53am
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Exactly what sort of meat do you think sustained the crusaders in their holy wars?
        
        Y’all act like Pasifikan peoples had a monopoly on slavery, cannibalism and tribal wars…
        
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        June 9, 2021 11:58am
      - Jack5
        
        Easy answer to BwaV’s question, ” … what sort of meat do you think sustained the Crusaders?”
        
        Pork of course. The Muslims didn’t want it. The Jews didn’t want it. So the price was right.
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:52pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Your “whataboutism” is becoming more ridiculous by the day.
      
      However, “whatabout” the dinosaurs, they were pretty nasty buggers?
      
      7 2
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      June 9, 2021 11:25am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      2,154 Maori deaths in the Land Wars vs 20,000 in the Musket Wars.
      
      9 3
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      June 9, 2021 12:04pm
    - Yabster
      
      firstly re the crusades it was pretty much a one off- not a culture- so completely different- but don’t let the facts get in the way.
      
      Secondly slavery etc was practiced by just about every society back in the day- no one is denying that but what most don’t like is the painting of pre 1840 Maori as some sort of sainted , peace loving, special race- they weren’t- they were a product of their time just like the people who colonised NZ.
      
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      June 9, 2021 12:29pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Who is painting Maori as ‘some sort of sainted, peace loving, special race’?
        
        3 8
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        June 9, 2021 12:46pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Most painting done in history tended to be white washing.
        
        Let’s not pretend European colonists were all about the peace, love, unity respect for the natives under Christ.
        
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        June 9, 2021 12:58pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Eating your enemy was a away to enhance your own mana–an increase in power.
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:28pm
      - Yabster
        
        Who is painting Maori as ‘some sort of sainted, peace loving, special race’?
        
        Maori elite woke lefties like yourself
        
        examples “offended by being shown as “stoneage” – they were fact
        Example -like to be depicted as a “unified race”- complete b/s.- wars and cannabilism doesn’t depicted unified does it.
        
        Kotahitanga is the concept of togetherness. Māori are a small yet unified race, and it’s important to lift each other up. Kotahitanga is identifying as one – sharing the earth, extending our āwhina (support) to everyone, and receiving the same back.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:09pm
    - Black with a Vengeance
      
      The Germans were a lot better to Samoa than NZ ever was!!!
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:00pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Yeah?
        
        3 3
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        June 9, 2021 1:30pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Yeah!
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:46pm
      - Jack5
        
        How would Samoans in a still-German Samoa have fared in the Third Reich?
        
        Samoans would have found it very cold on the Eastern Front, and, if they survived Stalingrad, even colder in Siberia.
        
        Then, when Japan entered the war, US marines would probably have stormed ashore from American Samoa.
        
        A third of the civilians in Okinawa were killed in World War 2. The Germans in Samoa wouldn’t have put up as much resistance as the Japanese did on Okinawa, but it still would have been very nasty.
        
        Also, if Western Samoa had never been an NZ colony, far fewer Samoans would have been able to migrate to NZ.
        
        Finally, Black with a Vengeance would have found German grammar more difficult than English grammar. The genders!
        
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        June 9, 2021 1:47pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Samoa would have never let the 3rd Reich happen.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:15pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Have you ever lived in Samoa?
        
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        June 9, 2021 3:36pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @KevO’Brien @ 3:36PM
        
        Oh, Kev! Don’t you see what you’ve done? You’ve said that, unless you’ve lived in Samoa (like you have, for seven years, like what, 40 years ago?), you cannot have an opinion on anything Samoan, e.g., life, history, whatever.
        
        That’s like saying that, because I have never lived in the United States, I can’t have an opinion on US current affairs, history, anything — even though we are all lucky enough to live in this modern age, of instant communication.
        
        While I complimented you a few days ago on a Samoan-related comment you made, I’m not going to let you get away with implying that only you, and persons like you, are capable of, or permitted to, comment on matters Samoan. Okay?
        
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        June 9, 2021 4:52pm
      - Black with a Vengeance
        
        Indeed I have Kev.
        
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        June 9, 2021 5:46pm
    - Keith White
      
      mma: Yes, because of the Laws of War which are usually observed, and latterly the Geneva Convention. Where did you learn history?
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:02pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The ‘laws’ of war leave plenty of scope for mass murder.
        
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        June 9, 2021 5:34pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    My sons social science class (compulsory) at high school has a white supremacy pyramid on the wall. I wonder whether other kids do too and if it’s advised to be put up by the ministry or is it just this teachers choice.
    
    I think it’s misnamed. In fact the name of the pyramid is racist, because it pre supposes that only Whites are racist. In fact even saying that the pyramid is racist puts me on the pyramid. Obviously the white privilege, white fragility rhetoric is the classic unwinnable catch 22.
    
    https://sosspeace.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Appendix-1-Pyramid-of-White-Supremacy.pdf
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:18am
    - graham
      
      That’s horrendous.
      
      With statements such as:
      
      “Denial of White Privilege”
      “It doesn’t matter who you vote for”
      “Remaining Apolitical”
      
      being seen as supporting a pyramid of White Supremacy which ultimately leads to:
      
      Burning crosses
      Police brutality
      Genocide
      
      if that was in my child’s classroom I’d be demanding some pretty straight answers from the teacher.
      
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      June 9, 2021 10:46am
      - Nickc2
        
        Hipkins, be accountable to the people for his CRAP.
        
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        June 9, 2021 7:53pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I’ll keep my children informed.
    
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    June 9, 2021 1:25pm
    - alex Masterley
      
      Kev, Have a polite word to the teacher.
      
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      June 9, 2021 3:29pm
Master Mariner

Supply chain issues from NZ to the world.
Good to see more coverage in media.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/business/444236/exporters-seek-urgent-solutions-over-constricted-global-supply-chains
Quote,
Exporters are no longer able to make forward freight bookings between Australia and New Zealand as international shipping companies abandon the relatively remote and marginal trans-Tasman routes in favour of profitable routes between China, Europe and the United States.”
Unquote.
Sound familiar? There is no light at the end of tunnel yet. More costs and price (Guageing) inflation.

Ok, How to deal with this and add some sense of cargo security.
Sign a MOU with a large carrier to get NZ goods to market ( Large terminal like Singapore). I mean we are pissing 100’s of millions paying Air carriers to fly to NZ.
Why not get some long term cargo carrying capacity for for less money, Another alternative is to own NZ own carrier line, Bit like an Air NZ model, Private and public ownership.
We really are at the mercy of supply chains here in NZ with scale and location.
FWIW,
Just Dont let the Nautical Maori Professor ? man and crew the vessels is all I’d ask for.
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June 9, 2021 9:03am
- Master Mariner
  
  Timely response from Whitehouse.
  
  https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2021/06/08/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-supply-chain-disruptions-task-force-to-address-short-term-supply-chain-discontinuities/
  
  For all you EV proponents it looks like the battle for Rare Earths are heating up.
  
  Quote from RT below,
  
  “The document predictably made a new series of recommendations geared towards the reestablishment of US competitiveness and primacy, the reshoring of various manufacturing and industrial capabilities, a focus on producing leading technologies and, of course, combating ‘unfair trade practices’ with a view to securing American jobs.
  
  At first glance, it might seem the review is pinned solely on America’s emerging competition with China. And there is some truth in that, especially given that it identifies four sectors which it deems relevant to that particular geopolitical struggle, including semiconductors, electric batteries and rare earths. ”
  Unquote.
  https://www.rt.com/op-ed/525999-biden-supply-chain-trump/
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:22am
Maggie Pie

WE FOUND THIS SHOCKING!

Just days after Joe’s emotional speech in Tulsa decrying racism, Hunter Biden texts his pakeha lawyer multiple times, using phrases like….. “true dat nigga” and saying, “I only love you cos you’re black”

(Read them for youself 🙁 )

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1402343995024551938
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June 9, 2021 9:05am
- amospicton
  
  He’s the smartest guy Joe knows…..apparently.
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:56am
- oldfella
  
  Come on, Maggie. You’re being too hard on the boy. Hunter wrote ‘nigga’ (commonly used in rap music), which is not the same as ‘nigger’. No way as bad. Might sound the same, and elicit the same reaction from anyone hearing it or reading it, but not as bad. Okay?
  The MSM will probably just applaud Hunter as a fledgling rapper and do an article like the one the NY Times did on his art career at the height of the laptop scandal.
  https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/arts/design/hunter-biden-art.html
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:41am
  - RiP NZ
    
    They hounded a girl out of university for exactly…exactly the same thing.
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:16am
    - curry4me
      
      RiP NZ: They sure did. She didn’t have a politician father with a D after his name though.
      
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      June 9, 2021 7:02pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    Oh, dear, oldfella. You really are beyond belief. It is equally as bad!
    
    I know nothing about rap music, but I would be surprised if any White rapper has ever used the ‘N’-word, regardless of spelling, in their songs.
    
    As for Hunter Biden: who gives a toss? Certainly not me. He will never hold elective/public office, so his “thoughts”/opinions (on any subject under the sun) are of no more interest (to the powers that be) than those of us Kiwibloggers!
    
    By the way. Are you enjoying Oriini Kaipara’s presentation of the news on 3 each afternoon? I certainly am.
    
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    June 9, 2021 1:09pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I would be surprised if any White rapper has ever used the ‘N’-word, regardless of spelling, in their songs.
      
      Surprise!
      Check out Kid Rock’s lyrics to
      “Black chick, White guy”
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpSUIh0rIdQ
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:55pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Oh, Maggy, I just knew I was entering dangerous territory when I wrote that.
        
        Thank you for going easy on me.
        
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        June 9, 2021 3:00pm
- Surely Knott
  
  It’s interesting to watch the tabloids repeatedly at the forefront breaking the news . Will WoPo, nytimes et al. have to now report it. Awkward. Will NZ herald report it. Would the NY times be quicker to report it if it was a Trump kid saying the N word and talking about his big penis. Wonder if they will ban the NY Post from Twitter like they did after the Post revealed their Hunter Biden allegations last time.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:54am
- RiP NZ
  
  Imagine if Don Jnr had sent the same texts, really imagine it. The lootings, the riots, the MSM banshees decrying the racism.
  
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  June 9, 2021 11:31am
cmm

“Equal pay for all nurses”
Really, do any of the nurses want that?

* Do they really want student nurses to earn the same as senior nurses?
* Do they really want more less qualified nurses (just out of college/uni) to earn the same as a highly qualified nurses (with advanced training) to earn the same?
* Do they really want experience and training to count for nothing?
* Do they want midwives (and others with far higher responsibility levels) to earn no more than other nurses?

C’mon people think first. This is a ridiculous position.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/125371867/live-tens-of-thousands-of-nurses-midwives-strike-for-better-pay
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June 9, 2021 9:25am
- rockape
  
  That’s not the posture. There has been a long running dispute about pay equality with equivalent work. That has yet to be resolved, as has the back pay owed for the underpaying of leave. DHBs are trying to confuse the issue by lumping equal pay in with the outstanding MECA pay agreement hence to promised $4000 offered as a down payment on equal pay. That should have nothing to do with the current MECA pay negotiations. Nor should “ safe manning” levels which surely is a health and safety matter not a part of a pay agreement.
  
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  June 9, 2021 12:10pm
- Paulus
  
  Nurses pay figures I saw recently for the first time shows what I believe that they are well paid BUT simply there are not enough of them and they do a great job.
  The Unions are fighting for as much as they can get trying 17% remembering that the Union chief’s get every percentage rise in their pay.
  And the Teacher’s Union are looking at what they can get on the back of the Nurses
  
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  June 9, 2021 2:12pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    And the junior doctors and radiographers and sonographers – for a start. Possibly the cleaners. Then there would be police/fire ….
    
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    June 9, 2021 5:32pm
  - surfing
    
    If by well paid, you mean a nurse will never ever have the chance to buy a home, then you are correct.
    
    Absolute inflation has been wickedly high, far higher than increases in nursing salaries.
    
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    June 9, 2021 8:21pm
- surfing
  
  Nurses have experience based renumeration levels, I don’t believe they have argued against that.
  
  This strike is equally about pay, and under-staffing, and staff safety.
  
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  June 9, 2021 2:48pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  nurses want it as a means to ratchet up pay for seniority using an argument about unfairness at next opportunity.
  
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  June 9, 2021 3:17pm
Maggie Pie

TWITTER TRENDING…..

Details emerge of preparations for Jacinda’s upcoming nuptials 😀

https://twitter.com/Jacinda_Ardern/status/1402348904893403140
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June 9, 2021 9:29am
Yvette

General practitioners are just as confused as the public about the Covid vaccine rollout, with many still waiting to know what their role will be, a NZ Medical Association council chair has said.
Weenink said “many GPs haven’t heard what their place is in” the rollout despite overseas examples showing the importance of their involvement.
“Overseas when GPs have been involved, that’s when it’s been really successful, in the UK for example, about 90 per cent of their vaccines have been delivered through GP practices,” she said.
“In Israel it has been delivered through their health networks which are basically essentially primary care networks.” [1]

Brought to you by the Government who were ~~responsible~~ irresponsible for planting trees, Kiwibuild and Auckland light rail. WHAT COULD GO WRONG?

Ardern initially refused to sack David Clark, although admitting she should, because in the face of fighting to control covid she did not want the massive disruption of changing one man – from Clark to Hipkins. Now that she and her officials are floundering in attempting the largest undertaking Health has seen – vaccinating 5 million New Zealanders – Ardern has seen fit to have Little announce the largest restructuring Health has ever been subjected to.

Did we think national vaccination would be handled any differently to trees, houses or light rail, even although Ardern claimed the Election was a Covid Election and her greatest priority is fighting the disease?

[1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/gps-just-confused-public-covid-vaccine-rollout-nz-medical-association-council-chair.html
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June 9, 2021 9:31am
- Tony Stuart
  
  My GP’s surgery knew nothing about the COVID vaccine rollout when I asked while receiving my flu jab two weeks ago. Quite by chance, we received an email at work the same day from the DHB, as a result of which I am getting vaccine #1 tomorrow. That’s only because I took the initiative and enquired about an appointment!
  
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  June 9, 2021 9:47am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I am in group 3 so eligible. I asked my GP who would contact me and how and he said he had no idea. And in the two years I have been seeing him I’ve been impressed with his competence.
    
    Imagine if National were in government and the covid vaccine roll out had been this shambolic. The media would be going totally nuts. There would be constant screams from the opposition that could be heard from earth’s orbit.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:51am
  - oldfella
    
    @Tony, my GP told me a few weeks back that they wanted to do Covid shots, but had been told it was not possible because of a shortage of vaccines.
    I didn’t wait for a DHB invite, rang the local hotline to make an appointment, and had my first injection within a week.
    Quick and easy with a second jab already scheduled.
    
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    June 9, 2021 10:53am
- SB2
  
  The PM explains and all is in hand. There are storage issues and complications such s the shelf life of the Pifzer vaccine
  
  Covid-19 vaccine delivery: ‘You don’t want to receive everything all at once’ – PM
  
  The general population is expected to begin getting Covid-19 vaccinations next month, after a million more doses of the Pfizer vaccine land on our shores.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/444321/covid-19-vaccine-delivery-you-don-t-want-to-receive-everything-all-at-once-pm
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:25pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You believe what Cinders in her ashes says?
    
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    June 9, 2021 1:35pm
  - I remember when
    
    SB2: Covid vaccine:
    We did and then we didn’t.
    Then we would and then we didn’t.
    First in line and then we weren’t.
    Got more than we need and then we haven’t.
    Then we are going to get a million doses and suddenly a million people are going to be fully vaccinated.
    We were and then………
    
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    June 9, 2021 2:22pm
ABS4EVA

Best RUGBY Match bar none

STATE OF ORIGIN

Nothing Compares to this GLADIATOR MATCH

NOTHING AT ALL
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June 9, 2021 9:50am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It will be interesting to see if the NRL’s crackdown on high shots will be enforced tonight, or set aside.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:14am
- Cassandra
  
  That’s if you want gladiators. League is a simple game played superbly. SoO substitutes (adds?) force. For stimulating rugby anything involving the Highlanders is watchable.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:15am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  ABS, back at the start of SOO, that was true. It was brutal and gladiatorial. Not so much now.
  Artie Beetson, John Lang, Wally Lewis, Les Boyd, Peter Tunks, Chris Close, Ray Price, Rod Morris, Steve Bowden, Eric Grothe, Mick Cronin, Fatty Vautin, Gene Miles, Steve Rogers, Brett Kenny and more. Those early games were absolutely brutal. Leading with elbows, arm bars, chicken winging, stiff arms, eye gouging (casually called facials by the commentators!). These days, all pretty relaxed and just like a decent rugby test between NZ & SA.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:57am
Scooter

Did Scomo give Cindy a heads up on the drugs bust, I doubt he did and the media would never ask.
1 4
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June 9, 2021 9:52am
- Steve Todd
  
  What makes you think Scomo knew anything, before the operation was carried out?
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:23am
  - Tall Man
    
    Because he’s not an idiot and like any half decent leader he has his finger on the pulse whereas the only pulse ardern fingers is her own.
    
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    June 9, 2021 11:18am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Oh, Tall Man! I expect better of you than that.
      
      2 8
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      June 9, 2021 1:32pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Because the Aussie cops were heavily involved in it. A large scale international operation like that probably comes under “national security” and the Police probably are required to kick it up stairs. Or not.
    
    5 2
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    June 9, 2021 11:25am
    - Steve Todd
      
      You do realise, that in your desperation to support the sentiment behind Scooter’s nonsensical comment, you have, a) posted a response that is entirely speculative; and b) made a complete fool of yourself. Don’t you?
      
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      June 9, 2021 1:27pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        I had no desperation at all, I simply offered a reasonable argument as to why the head of Government of one of the two countries most heavily involved in that international operation may have known operational details of what was happening, as you asked Scooter for. My post was speculative (which my “or not” statement clearly showed) but wasn’t in any way unreasonable..
        
        Personally, my comment was regarding why ScoMo might know about the operation (which was your question) and had nothing to do with the Jacinda part.
        
        Instead of offering anything that even remotely disproves my hypothesis you just insulted me.
        
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        June 9, 2021 2:34pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Okay, Lib. You have valiantly attempted to defend yourself (albeit, rather convolutedly), but rather unsuccessfully, in my view.
        
        Surely you, and all other Kiwibloggers, must know, that there is no way that senior politicians in the countries affected by this operation, would have had any prior knowledge of it, before it was carried out. That is simply not the way the police operate.
        
        Therefore, to suggest that Scomo knew what was going on, but Jacinda didn’t, and he chose not to inform her, is utter nonsense. If he knew what was going on (which he didn’t), then surely Jacinda would’ve known, too!
        
        Yes! What you said was your “hypothesis”. How could I, or anyone else, put up information that would disprove it? We are not police officers, and if we were, we wouldn’t be commenting about a current operation on Kiwiblog, for goodness sake!
        
        Lib, I offer you some friendly advice. Stop digging!
        
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        June 9, 2021 7:16pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Steve – The FBI and Australian Federal Police were the two major players in this so comparing what ScoMo knew to what Jacinda knew is irrelevant. Also, unlike Jacinda, ScoMo was all over all of the announcements about this so it’s entirely possible he had some knowledge at least that something was going on.
        
        As I said, it’s possible this comes under National Security being a multi-country operation (and the ties between criminal activity and terrorism) and ScoMo does actually sit as chair of the National Security Agency.
        
        You keep referring to Jacinda when rebutting me but I never said anything about her, my argument is simply about the fact that it is possible that ScoMo did know what was going on. Yes it’s conjecture, just like yours and at least I admit that where you seem to have 100% certainty that you are right which is pretty foolish to be fair.
        
        I’ve already covered your sole argument about “operational knowledge”, offering a reason why ScoMo might actually have known what was going on and again, in your arrogance you didn’t actually explain in any way how I was wrong.
        
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        June 10, 2021 8:46am
ABS4EVA

Looks like the Drug Supply in Auckland is going to be disrupted for a while
oh well they will STILL VOTE LABOUR in the
SLAMMER
15 3
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June 9, 2021 9:52am
Maggie Pie

NewstalkZB@9:45AM

Maori gentleman tells Kerry Woodham….. “now that all the old Kaumatua are fading away, gang members are taking over the marae. They bring their babies and children along with ‘clenched fists’ drawn on their little faces”

Where’s Louise when you need her?
26 3
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June 9, 2021 9:53am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Just as I suspected–the “old kaumatua are fading away”.
  That explains why we are seeing Maori anarchy arising as wisdom has gone. It seem to be everyone for themselves now with terrible consequences as they attempt to take NZ back.
  On chief goes another replaces.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:41pm
ABS4EVA

Did Labour Plant a Tree?
8 2
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June 9, 2021 9:58am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Grant Robertson has a couple of money trees planted in his garden. He got the seedlings from the Reserve Bank!
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:15am
Maggie Pie

BREAKING

Reports coming in Jacinda has turned up at Auckland Hospital ED dressed as a Nurse….. hugging any uniformed staff-member she can find.
18 5
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June 9, 2021 10:15am
- sooty
  
  Did she have the feathered cloak and teatowel on as well?
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:34am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Strikes? “Not on my watch” JA
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June 9, 2021 10:18am
chukar

Don’t worry about gun buybacks and shortages , the mob is now making them in NZ .
First 3D manufactured firearm found in NZ.
So now the crooks have guns and responsible gun owners don’t.
Thanks Labour
19 1
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June 9, 2021 10:24am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  And it is now possible to 3D print fully automatic machine guns and they don’t have serial numbers.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:27pm
  - Jack5
    
    That’s not quite right, info@cruzpro.com
    
    The initial 3D-made handguns – one-shot, plastic, frail – are said to be pretty flaky.
    
    Something more serious …
    
    Cody Wilson, an American anarchist-libertarian, organised production of a basic home-user machine tool, the Ghost Gunner, which he was sold online at a low price. He provides progams to run the device.
    
    From this people could make metal receivers for assault rifles. These are the critical part, but other parts could be bought in many states of America.
    
    Wilson did have trouble getting delivery firms to handle the Ghost Gunner, which is effectively a home user’s CNC machine milling tool.
    
    Wilson was in trouble on a sex matter a year or two ago. He was arrested in Taiwan and sent back to the United States Not sure whether he went to the slammer, or whether he’s outside now.
    
    Here’s a look at Cody Wilson’s web site:
    
    https://ghostgunner.net/
    
    (There are several videos about 3D-printed guns on YouTube.)
    
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    June 9, 2021 2:30pm
sooty

Isn’t it great angry andrew who led many strikes as the leader of NZ’s biggest union, now has one of the most important union is leading one against him as Minister of Health!
Hypocrisy, bigly!
18 1
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June 9, 2021 10:32am
Cobolt24

The RBNZ is trapped, they’ll never be able to raise interest rates meaningfully.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2021/06/mortgages-credit-account-customers-in-hardship-up-5-percent-in-may-centrix.html
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June 9, 2021 10:53am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Florida Man throws baby out with the bathwater…..

https://breaking911.com/watch-video-shows-moment-suspect-throws-baby-at-deputy-after-police-chase/
5 3
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June 9, 2021 11:02am
- Steve Todd
  
  Just what is it with Florida men, eh, Maggie?
  
  You might, or, being a good Catholic girl, might not, enjoy this: https://friendlyatheist.patheos.com/2021/04/15/the-bible-makes-way-more-sense-as-a-series-of-florida-man-stories/?
  
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  June 9, 2021 11:42am
- SB2
  
  I can’t help but wonder the fact that the offender was an African American has significance for you?
  
  1 21
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  June 9, 2021 1:17pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Since she didn’t mention it, then it says more about you than anyone else.
    Take off your poo-tinted glasses.
    
    11 1
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    June 9, 2021 2:47pm
oldfella

A Taupo woman, (age unknown) complains about house auctions, and it becomes a lead story on stuffed?
She thinks the system is unfair, and could cause bidders to exceed the limits of what they were prepared to spend.
Well, duh, sweetheart, but that’s the way auctions work.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/300327921/househunter-upset-at-manipulation-of-auctions
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June 9, 2021 11:16am
oldfella

Where will this woke nonsense end?
++
Senior England star James Anderson says their players feel anxious about historical tweets after rookie test bowler Ollie Robinson was suspended for discriminatory posts he made as a teenager on Twitter from 2012-13.
The England and Wales Cricket Board (ECB) on Wednesday said it was investigating more social media posts which “have been questioned publicly” after tweets by Anderson, Jos Buttler and England one-day international captain Eoin Morgan surfaced online.
The ECB is also investigating claims that an England player, who was 15 at the time, posted “historic offensive material”.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/cricket/300328027/new-zealand-vs-england-james-anderson-says-england-players-feel-anxious-as-more-historical-tweets-surface
I assume local wokey witch-hunters will now be scouring historic texts and posts from the Black Caps, All Blacks, Olympians, etc, keen to rip down another ‘star’ who might have said a few stupid things when they were teenagers (most of us).
How did we arrive in this strange, new world?
10 1
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June 9, 2021 11:24am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  A strange, new, authoritarian world.
  
  8 0
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  June 9, 2021 1:51pm
- marcw
  
  Easy solution – every current ECB player gets on Twatter and makes a planned stupid racist remark. Keep repeating until the ECB idiots resign.
  
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  June 9, 2021 2:53pm
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder how many overseas folks will be flocking to our universities when the pandemic ends.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/06/most-new-zealand-universities-fall-in-latest-world-rankings-thanks-to-lack-of-teachers.html
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June 9, 2021 11:46am
- nathie
  
  Just looking at the link headline “lack of teachers” … let’s all not forget that Universities were begging the Labour govt last year to allow them to bring in their international students (hence income) and would willingly isolate them, in their own student residential facilities.
  
  The Labour government’s response was to not only ignore them … but to also not support them financially (hence “teachers” being made redundant in order to cut costs due to drop in income). Despite blowing billions on other Labour/Green pet projects.
  
  Is Labour “kind”? They demonstrate they are not!
  
  Meanwhile Australia is allowing foreign students to return (and is encouraging investment).
  
  Whilst over here Labour have their heads in the sand … although Ardern will surely refute that, as the nation goes broke as she cheerfully adorns the covers of overseas glossy magazines!
  
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  June 9, 2021 12:06pm
- rangitoto
  
  MIT #1 for the tenth year running.
  
  4 0
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  June 9, 2021 12:08pm
- SB2
  
  They will like they did before the pandemic!
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:15pm
- Jack5
  
  Foreign university students have mainly come for rights to stay in NZ and become citizens.
  
  The bright ones go to the United States, then Europe, Canada, and Australia.
  
  The number of foreigners at university will continue to depend on whether it’s still a route to residency.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:58pm
  - surfing
    
    Should never have been a route.
    
    7 0
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    June 9, 2021 2:49pm
Black with a Vengeance

Imagine China colonizing present day NZ in the same way Europeans did to Pasifika back in the day.

All your land dispossessed and culture suppressed but the ‘benefits’ outweigh the detriments and the end justifies the means, right?

How happy would you be ?
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June 9, 2021 12:05pm
- cmm
  
  It already happened to European people.
  
  The Romans colonised Europe (and Britain).
  
  Without that, Britain would never have been kickstarted to become the global superpower that it became – including its world-wide fight against slavery.
  
  No I suspect the people that actually lived through the Roman occupation might have been a bit pissed off, no rightminded Brit would argue that the Roman colonialism did not bring benefits that outweighed the negatives.
  
  The same applies here: Maori people 200 years ago might have had a legitimate grievance, but those that live today do not. There is nobody alive today that is being colonised.
  
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  June 9, 2021 12:32pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You attribute Britain’s rise to global dominance to the 300-year Roman occupation 1500 years earlier? That’s a novel theory.
    
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    June 9, 2021 12:34pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Heh, heh, heh. Oh, dear, so good.
      
      3 10
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      June 9, 2021 3:15pm
    - Cobolt24
      
      Introducing medicine, the law, writing, metallurgy, the wheel and so on.
      I think the Romans had a lasting and profound effect which helped them progress.
      Also see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect
      
      12 3
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      June 9, 2021 3:44pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Heard of the Dark Ages?
        
        3 8
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        June 9, 2021 5:38pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, classicism was reborn in the Renaissance at the end of the Dark Ages.
        
        https://www.thecollector.com/classicism-and-the-renaissance-the-rebirth-of-antiquity-in-europe/
        
        6 4
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        June 9, 2021 7:58pm
      - Mike
        
        That’s nice, Jack.
        
        3 5
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        June 9, 2021 8:07pm
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    Yeah right…lol
    
    2 12
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    June 9, 2021 12:45pm
  - Bloody Dago
    
    You can’t debate Maori colonization without some of this:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ozEZxOsanY
    
    4 5
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    June 9, 2021 1:16pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    “All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?”
    
    8 2
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    June 9, 2021 2:49pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  What benefits? We have far more rights and a far higher standard of living than those in China do. Your argument holds no relevance.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:02pm
  - Black with a Vengeance
    
    China could futureproof our infrastructure, sort out the housing crisis in no time while ensuring NZ was always on the cutting edge of technology.
    
    2 9
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    June 9, 2021 2:11pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  The way the country is going, some days I think I would welcome our new overlords.
  
  But China has a LOT of problems it would import. It would be an end to wokery but it would also be an end to free speech. Not really worth it on balance.
  Nor is it quite like neolithic peoples having sudden access to the diverse products of the industrial age.
  It would be more purely a political and ideological change.
  A pretty limited metaphor.
  
  Besides, some people welcome the Chinese just like many Maori welcomed the Pakeha. The key things is HOW we do it, which we are still testing out.
  
  Not really quite the ‘gotcha’ you might think. Yes, one is in the past and one is in the future so we might draw parallels.
  You can only hope that you get more good than bad – kind of like I gather Paul Goldsmith was proposing recently, quite validly, as an idea to consider around the arrival of Europeans.
  
  I might also point out that China is presently colonising key parts of the Pacific via Belt and Road and the cheque book anyway.
  Perhaps go warn your Pacifica chums that they are falling for it all over again!
  
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  June 9, 2021 3:00pm
- greybeard
  
  Lots of Chinese want to leave China and live in the West.
  How many non-Chinese want to go and live in China?
  
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  June 9, 2021 3:14pm
- chukar
  
  Don’t need to worry about land in NZ,
  Does not matter who owns it ,apparently ownership is just nominal.
  The amount of “tenure neutral “legislation and regulation that has been passed since 1990 beggars belief. RMA, Climate etc etc
  
  “Any government that can do every thing for you can also take everything off you”
  
  Our government including local are in full take mode.
  
  5 0
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  June 9, 2021 6:01pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep,
    You wouldn’t want a “heritage” tree or a swamp in your backyard.
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/444284/west-coast-mayors-call-for-halt-to-all-sna-work-in-wake-of-far-north-protests
    
    6 1
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    June 9, 2021 7:03pm
Peter Lane

Total insanity. Welcome to the future courtesy of brainwashed left wing wokies.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-family/2021/06/08/queen-becomes-latest-victim-cancel-culture-portrait-removed/
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June 9, 2021 12:12pm
- Peter Lane
  
  I see this is paywalled. Apologies but in a nutshell students have voted to remove a portrait of the Queen from their common room in case some of them are offended by it.
  
  ‘An unwelcome symbol of recent colonial history.
  
  Good God.
  
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  December 9, 2020 12:14pm
- rangitoto
  
  The DM article:
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9664583/Oxford-University-college-votes-remove-portrait-Queen-common-room.html
  
  5 1
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  June 9, 2021 1:23pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Um – who’s colonising who in the UK in this day and age? – I’m confused.
    
    6 1
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    June 9, 2021 2:36pm
I remember when

Rural Mental Health:
* Vets are 4th on list of professions with highest suicide rates.
* Farmers are 9th on the list.
* Female vets are 3.5 times more likely to die from suicide than the general population.
* A quarter of all rural suicides in last 8 years have been 25 Year old farm hands.
* In almost 60% of rural suicide cases, the final trigger is a relationship break-up or argument.
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June 9, 2021 12:29pm
- Keith White
  
  Doctors die by suicide at twice the rate of the general population.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:06pm
I remember when

And the downside of the big crime sting.
More 501’s due to be delivered to us in the near future.
11 0
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June 9, 2021 12:30pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Which is why the younger Kiwi’s are actively heading towards being long term 444’s.
  
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  June 9, 2021 2:23pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-zealand-universities-slide-in-global-ranking-university-of-auckland-makes-top-100/RVGZ4M4Z73IAL6QTVAMQTSZ6SA/

I expect this slide to accelerate, given the switch away from maths and science and towards cultural learning.
13 0
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June 9, 2021 12:31pm
SB2

At Auckland City Hospital this notice,

RACISM
IS A
Pandemic
TOO
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June 9, 2021 1:08pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “RACISM
  IS A
  Pandemic
  TOO”
  
  I suspect that the person who published that slogan is very keen on equality of outcome. They also probably believe that “racism” is that which is defined by Critical Race Theory.
  
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  June 9, 2021 1:50pm
- I remember when
  
  No SB2:
  Racism is a PENdemic.
  
  15 1
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  June 9, 2021 2:03pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  So, do you have a position on the power disparity and dislocation of white feminism vis-a-vis the feminism expressed and experienced by womin of colour…?
  
  6 0
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  June 9, 2021 2:22pm
- Surely Knott
  
  ?
  
  2 0
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  June 9, 2021 2:22pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Are they meaning the prioritisation of Maori and Pacifica for access to services?
  i.e. that other races are therefore lower priority in the eyes of medical management?
  
  I think the hospital should stick to its own knitting.
  
  Treat purely based on need, recognize our shared common humanity.
  Underneath our skin we are all squishy and red.
  
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  June 9, 2021 3:11pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  SB2 lands plum job as part-time Orderly at Auckland Hospital.
  
  LOL!!
  
  11 1
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  June 9, 2021 3:37pm
I remember when

An interesting incident on my inspection of the road cones of NZ this morning.
Massive truck and trailer unit went all the way around a roundabout so it could complete a left turn.
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June 9, 2021 2:01pm
Keith White

SB2: OK let’s play that game:

“Wokeness is simple psychiatric pathology; but fear not, we can treat you”.

“Apartheid is evil; rise against He PuaPua.”

“The Maori Health Authority is not fit for purpose: it won’t provide Health care to people, and being Maori confers no additional moral Authority.”

“In Auckland City Hospital we treat everybody on the basis of the priority of their clinical needs; if you want to treat people on the basis of their skin color or racial ID, please emigrate, join the US Democratic Party, and start up a branch of the KKK.”

“The 50s called; they want South-African-style apartheid in New Zealand.”
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June 9, 2021 2:12pm
70andstilllearning

CCC:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/444341/climate-change-commission-releases-final-report-says-nearly-all-cars-imported-by-2035-must-be-electric

“By end of 2022 set targets to get more people walking, cycling and using public transport”

Did someone forget to tell Carr this government doesn’t ” do targets”.

Only glanced through the release but this is cookcoo land stuff.
16 1
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June 9, 2021 2:46pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  Can’t teach an old cuckoo new tricks…
  
  5 5
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  June 9, 2021 3:04pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Ta – analytic, not particularly linguistic – have a good day 🙂 🙂
    PS: u got ut
    
    3 1
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    June 9, 2021 4:38pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Rod Carr seems to mistake the “Bring out your dead” scene and the constitutional peasants from Monty Python and the Holy Grail as economic theory.
  
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  June 9, 2021 4:42pm
Maggie Pie

Just back from doing lunch with the gals.
One of them passed on this absolute ‘game-changer’ which I thort I’d share here with the group as well.

You can thank me later…. 😛

https://instagram.com/p/CPkdYxWHXpo/
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June 9, 2021 3:31pm
- Doc Holliday
  
  Looks painful to me
  
  4 0
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  June 9, 2021 4:24pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    You think that’s painful
    What about this?
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=idMa4a6eA9M
    Lol
    
    4 2
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    June 9, 2021 5:47pm
Benedict Yu

You can set as many targets as you like. The only way to get more people on public transport is to make private vehicle travel unaffordable or intolerable.

Yes people are seriously going to walk from the suburbs to their place of employment. If people live more than 3 kms from work they ain’t walking. And at all in the rain. Who is going to deliver kids to preschool on a bus or a bike?,

These people are just delusional. BTW AFAIK James Shaw does live 3 km from work and does walk to work. I suggest he looks after 2 preschool kids for a month and lives in Upper Hutt. In winter. And he has to rely on public transport.
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June 9, 2021 4:25pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  You will OBEY.
  Bikes good.
  Cars bad.
  Horses fart.
  
  3 1
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  June 9, 2021 10:01pm
Jack5

The Royal Society of New Zealand shows more evidence it’s a bit of a pseudo-scientific organisation.

It’s charging $US53 for download of an article that claims to show Maori discovered Antarctica – a claim clearly based on oral stories passed down.

At least this isn’t as blatant as the Maori “astrologer” who said in a recent RNZ interview that Maori “sailed” to the South Pole.

The Herald qualifies the report by saying Maori mahy have discovered Antarctica.

The newspaper quotes researcher Billy van Uitregt as saying oral tradition brought “richness to the conversation”.

“It highlights the limitations of the written narratives that we have. that I don’t think can be captured in written word”.

The Royal Society of NZ, made up largely of humanitarian studies people, is barely recognisable as a shadow of the great London-based Royal Society, the world’s most famous national science institution.

A Royal Society of NZ panel has worked with the Education Department on The Great Revision of NZ history to be taught in our schools (see link that follows).

The Royal Society (not the NZ version) has had as fellows (members) thousands of leading scientists, including Newton, Darwin, Faraday, Rutherford, Hawkins, Turing, Burners-Lee. Among its foreign members, 10 of whom are elected each year, have been Einstein, Bohr, Feynman, E.O. Wilson, Bardeen, and hundreds more.

For the Royal Society of NZ panel’s review of the revisionist history that schools will use to indoctrinate our school kids:

https://www.royalsociety.org.nz/assets/Aotearoa-New-Zealand-histories-response-to-draft-curriculum-May-2021-digital.pdf
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June 9, 2021 5:08pm
- Jack5
  
  Edit: … Maori may have discovered Antarctica.
  
  2 2
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  June 9, 2021 5:15pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Indoctrinate, or educate?
  
  3 8
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  June 9, 2021 5:40pm
  - Jack5
    
    Indoctrinate.
    
    5 2
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    June 9, 2021 7:52pm
- Exhumed
  
  I’d like too see the technology which allowed a storage people to ‘sail to the South Pole’. I’d pay good money to see them do that today. They might get to Scott Base and then do they portage their canoes over land?
  
  What a crock. Maori will appear at the UN claiming the Antarctic before you can say disenfranchised by colonisation.
  
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  June 9, 2021 5:45pm
- tf78
  
  Jack, what alcohol did Maori’s produce to make up all these stories – they sound like the old men’s fishing tales.
  
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  June 9, 2021 7:58pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  I am not a fan of ‘oral history’ as it is used today.
  Long ago it meant Maori specialists (Tohunga) memorising genealogy.
  These days it means ‘….something someone brown said’.
  A good example comes from being approached by a documentary maker with an ‘oral history’, wanting my help, and trying to convince him the history was fiction (a demonstrable 19th century myth at that) he would not accept at all – despite photos and multiple literary sources contradicting his oral account…then one day he contacted me and said one Maori elders account invalidated the original account and suddenly he realised there was doubt.
  
  Oral history these days means JACK.
  
  Try getting a straight answer to a story that happened last week from 3 different people.
  Chinese whispers is what it is.
  Not some magical quality that comes from having more melanin.
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:07pm
Maggie Pie

And just to put the Nurse’s wage demand into perspective….

Green MP Ricardo Menendez-March’s salary, is 3 times that of a Nurse with 10 years experience. Just saying.
19 1
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June 9, 2021 5:14pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Same as Chris Luxon and Todd Muller and Simon Bridges and Nicola Willis and Chris Bishop and Nick Smith and Gerry Brownlee ….. All good folk 🙂
  
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  December 9, 2020 5:49pm
- Jack5
  
  Be charitable Maggie. It costs Ricardo a fortune travelling to and from his Tijuana electorate.
  
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  June 9, 2021 5:22pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You know me Jack – I didn’t mean to be mean.
    
    He is a scum list MP though 😀
    
    14 1
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    June 9, 2021 5:38pm
Tony Stuart

If you needed proof that Labour is totally tone-deaf and out of touch, Priyanca Radhakrishnan, Minister for the Community & Voluntary Sector, Diversity, Inclusion & Ethnic Communities, and Youth and
Associate Minister for Social Development & Employment provided it this afternoon.

The National South Island MP’s, Nicola Grigg from Selwyn and Matt Doocey from Waimakariri, plus Stuart Smith (Kaikoura) criticised the Government for its stingy offer of $500,000 in flood relief to date. This, they argued, looked even worse when Labour’s Billion Dollar Bike Bridge was announced on Friday, whilst traffic movements across the Ashburton River are restricted as the bridge awaits permanent repairs. The Government could build 25 Ashburton bridges with what it is proposing to spend on the Grey Lynn Elite.

Radhakrishnan’s response? Apparently, it was all “doom and gloom” from National. This is the same Minister who two weeks ago told migrants separated from the families to stop contacting her on social media. Labour is barely six months into its second term, but Labour MP’s are already displaying late third-term arrogance and entitlement. I’m guessing Jo Luxton’s tenure of the Rangitata electorate will be a brief one!
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June 9, 2021 6:16pm
Exhumed

I’m white. I’m a male. I’m an old geezer. I have a few underlying health issues. So according to the system I’m eligible for the jab.

What do you think my Dr. said?

I’ll tell you.

‘Wrong colour. Wrong sex. Not in the NI. Not sick enough.’

Rubbish.
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June 9, 2021 6:17pm
- tf78
  
  Exhumed – look at it this way, your Doc may really like you and would rather have you around.
  
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  June 9, 2021 8:03pm
  - Exhumed
    
    True, but he could have said, “Nice to have you around…but your a white male, you not Maori or PI, and you don’t live in the SI.”
    
    And I did check with some friends in the NI who are Maori, and they’re like me, except they’re not white and don’t live in the SI…and they’ve been jabbed and they have more health issues than I do, and, I guess this is what you’re implying, it didn’t have an adverse affect on them.
    
    But they do get 5G now.
    
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    June 10, 2021 6:13am
- surfing
  
  Go down to the local marae and have it done.
  
  I know some people who did that.
  
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  June 10, 2021 12:52am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

No August, maybe not 2020. In 2024?
Ready?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UoQ87O21Rw
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June 9, 2021 7:11pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/staff-at-waikato-hospitals-emergency-department-breaking-down-in-tears-due-to-immense-stress/72ACIEODKKED2MS6S2GVQEU4SM/

“The emergency department has been just absolutely slammed probably for the last year or more and nobody really knows why the numbers have gone up, but they’ve definitely gone up.”

Because the population of hamilton has increased by 20,000 people in the last 5 years. But, the hospital is the same size.

No wonder!
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June 9, 2021 8:24pm
ABS4EVA

Global Times Military is now worth Checking
on a Daily Basis to see the Acceleration
of Preparation

PLA conducts amphibious landing drills amid latest US provocation on Taiwan question

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1225733.shtml

since military exchanges between the US and the island of Taiwan have been increasing and are expected to continue to increase, the PLA is also enhancing its combat readiness against Taiwan secessionists and those behind them, Song said.

The PLA’s exercises aim to win wars, and to resolve the questions of national unity and territorial integrity, Song said.

WHEN THEY SAY SOMETHING
THEY MEAN IT AN

THEY DO IT
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June 9, 2021 8:53pm
- Jack5
  
  Relax, ABS4EVA.
  
  China doesn’t have the naval capacity to invade and take Taiwan, let alone Australia.
  
  (On the other hand, nor does anyone have anywhere near sufficient manpower to invade and take China in a land campaign.)
  
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  June 9, 2021 10:31pm
  - ABS4EVA
    
    You don’t know JACK JACK
    
    1 1
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    June 10, 2021 12:13am
Jack5

Newshub’s overseas owners obviously don’t give a rat’s arse …

Karl du Fresne looks at the wild and open partisanship of Newshub’s Tova O’Brien and Jenna Lynch in attacking National.

https://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2021/06/mistress-tovas-latest-discipline-session.html
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June 9, 2021 10:29pm
- Yabster
  
  good article- we need some right leaning media in this country.
  
  @ Tony Stuart, Judith, Muller etc should read that article- be good to get your thoughts on it. I have to agree National looked really weak – they need a common media startegy – no comment is not that hard to say is it?
  
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  June 10, 2021 8:16am

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