At his rally in Florida yesterday, he told the crowd about a terrorist incident in Sweden, but there was no terrorist incident in Sweden.
There were however terrorist attacks in Iraq, directed against Muslims, but these attacks do not appear on Trump’s radar because he is only concerned about white people.
Trump has repeatedly claimed that he is of Swedish descent, but that isn’t true either. His father and grandfather were German. That’s nothing to be ashamed of. Why does he lie about everything?
Want to know how often Trump lies? Politifact says that 50% of his statements are either “false” or “pants on fire.” Another 20% are rated “mostly false.” Only 16% of his statements are rated either “true” or “mostly true.” 14% are “half true.”
The default position for any thinking citizen is to assume that whatever he says, other than his name, is not true. Check the facts before believing anything he says.
Diane Ravitch's blog 
Wonder if there are drugs influencing this behavior. A few of my psychiatrist friends say this isn’t necessarily a result of mental illness. Usually I feel compassion for those inflicted with such issues – this is all such a conundrum.
His name isn’t true either. His family changed it to sound less German.
I think it was Drumpf
So the hell what? My family changed my maiden name to sound less German. It was quite common in the 40s for some odd reason. Does that make me (and millions of other Americans) dishonest?
Please, folk, focus on what matters.
My name was changed after I was born, to sound less Jewish. From Silverstein to Silvers.
But I never claimed a different nationality or pretended to be something I wasn’t
and then there is this: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/donald-trump-terror-attack-claim-sweden-neo-nazis-refugee-centre-florida-rally-a7588516.html
Thanks a lot. Just what I need . Two minutes of watching him and I am ready to puke. To think how ill his followers must be to stand in line to hear that piece of sh&t .
The President has access to information that may or may not be reported by the media. We can hardly trust that source. Of course he will use anything at his disposal to get his point across–including exaggeration. He has his character flaws…don’t we all? Other presidents have made up stories–did we research them and call the guys liars? I am curious as to why the liberals will not give him a chance. Roadblocks are thrown up and you do what you can to try to destroy him–his cabinet and family members. This is not right. It is sickening and disgraceful. He represents the mainstream citizens of this country who, incidentally, got him elected. They are ridiculed and insulted constantly by the media and blogs such as this yet they love this country every bit as much as you. Conservatives sat around for the last 8 years and for the most part accepted what they felt was destroying our nation. Congress did little. Look and the violence and hatred that divides us now. The election created a fire storm of pent up anger.
He is our president and we should support him. I think he will soften on some of his issues when he evaluates them down the road. . Building a successful business requires that. He is trying to work with congress yet meets opposition, hate speech and leaks from his own party as well as Democrats This country is in a mess and it will take time, money and prayer to get us out of it. He needs our support right now. Throw him to the wolves after a year—but give him a chance!
Incidentally, many people change the spelling of their names when they get to this country from overseas or have changed it over time—-nothing wrong with that. Check your own family genealogy. We are a composite of many nations as well, especially if your ancestors are from Europe.
April, he watches TV! That’s where his intel comes from!
He’s an idiot trying to emulate facets of Hitler.
End of story. He is the enemy of our democracy right now.
April
I am willing to give him a chancre to plead guilty and spend the rest of his life in jail rather than the needle he should get for Treason.
The Republicans got together on day one and decided to obstruct everything. They kept an open supreme court seat vacant for almost a whole year.
Alliterative facts belong in an alternative universe
chance
And April, you’re right about our names. And Drump is not very appealing.
April,
“Well, I think that it’s been an important reminder to all Americans that we have a judiciary that has taken far too much power and become, in many cases, a supreme branch of government. … The end result of this, though, is that our opponents, the media and the whole world will soon see as we begin to take further actions, that the powers of the president to protect our country are very substantial and will not be questioned.”
Trump loved this quote by his advisor Stephen Miller so much that he tweeted about it the next day.
The number of quotes like this out of the Trump administration make me ask: what do you want us to give him a chance to do? End checks and balances in our government? Demolish our free press? And he HAS done things. He HAS had a chance. For instance, Trump recently decided that he was okay with the one-China policy. This decision of his was directly after China approved Trump’s right to use his name as a brand in China. Shall we give Trump a chance to change our national policies so that he can personally enrich himself and his family? And all of this about Russia: There should be an investigation into Trump’s ties with Russia; whether or not he’s being blackmailed or bribed, and whether or not he collaborated with Russians to win our election. Shall we give Trump a chance to set our international policies while he is being bribed or blackmailed by Russia? (An investigation would clear that up.)
You gave Obama a chance? Okay. I gave Bush a chance for eight years, without being politically active and with very minimal protesting. I didn’t like Bush.
Trump is a very different beast.
Our Donald Trump fellow travelers April and Linda provide us an interesting insight—a Petri dish, if you will—into the psyche of his hard core supporters. They are willing to justify any source of information that fits their preconceived misconceptions, prejudices, and selective interpretations. They will ignore inconsistencies (give him a chance vs. never give Obama/Democrats a chance) and blindly follow their leader as the source of ultimate wisdom.
I’m glad they add their comments because it helps us to to comprehend where they are coming from—but, honestly, I think we all know where that is. It gives us an insight into a particular irrationality. They probably represent 30-40% of the American population. It’s probably not worth trying to engage them in actual dialogue because they either choose never to respond to comments. They only drop their rhetorical bomblets and disappear. They revel in our frustration of trying to reason with them. That’s because they have no logical consistency in their arguments to offer. People like April and Linda never will choose to listen to rational ideas. They fall into the trap that Victor Klemperer identified in Germany in 1933, “The jargon of the Third Reich sentimentalizes; that is always suspicious.” That is the core of Trumpism’s appeal to them. They are convinced that a world which has never existed is indeed real and based in history. Therefore, anything that supports these fictions is legitimate for them.
The rest of us need to identify and engage with the 10-15% of the population who are currently supporters of this regime and don’t understand what fascism is; that it is not a relic of the past. They will likely come around and realize that national interests need to be put before partisan interests. So we need to focus on those who can be educated, who have a sliver of open-mindedness that might be able to be pried open. The most immediate we need to identify are the former #NeverTrump folks who are making their deals with the devil for reasons of professional or party expediency.
And for those who are like-minded, we need to pay attention to the advice of people like Masha Gessen and George Lakoff to develop a tactical rhetorical responses that do not fall into predictable cycles; that don’t reinforce misconceptions and lies. But let’s not waste time on trying to reason with people whose core beliefs are unreasonable, illogical or not based in fact. They must be fought and marginalized so that the majority recognizes them for what they are.
Additional wisdom from Klemperer: “I make judgments as an intellectual, Mr. Goebbels reckons with masses that are drunk.”
April,
I did give him a chance, which admittedly did not last very long. My first shock was the attempt to ban valid visa and green card holders from predominantly Muslim countries. I have been obsessed with the news ever since.
You may call me naive. Although I knew about neo-Nazis, I had never heard of white nationalists. I still have not recovered from the shock of Bannon in a powerful position. Nearly every secretary has plans to demolish his agency. Our new Attorney General has a history of obstructing the Voters Rights legislation and making racist remarks.
Then along came DeVos. I must have read a dozen articles about her to date. She wants to shatter the wall of separation between church and state, provide vouchers to private schools and eliminate the public schools.
I won’t bore you, the hostess, or the other readers of this blog with further details. I am hourly presented with fresh abominations to digest. I can barely get any rest. My sense of safety has been tossed asunder.
GregB
Well stated.
There is no engaging the Deplorables and either the never Trumpers or the Deporables will be played. I am betting the Deplorables will be
played .
Trump referred to an attack in Sweden “last night”, not last month, so the gist of that article doesn’t jive
http://www.alternet.org/world/what-has-he-been-smoking-sweden-embassy-asks-us-explain-trump-comment-sweden
Yes, I agree. The point I was trying to make (which I didn’t get across) was that this was an attack by white nationalists in Sweden against immigrant groups, not an attack by refugees on Swedes as Trump implied. “Three suspected neo-Nazis were arrested in January after a Gothenburg Asylum centre became the target of a homemade bomb attack, leaving one person seriously injured.
“Security services said all three suspects had previously been members of the Nordic Resistance Movement (NMR), a group that openly promotes racist and anti-Semitic views and has vocally opposed non-white immigration to the country.”
Now the question is this.
Is there a critical mass of thinking citizens who even care about what Trump says and whether he lies. There are certainly are a lot of Republicans in and beyond Congress who are saying this is “just his style” and that what he does really matters. Small comfort either way.
Important to remember what Masha Gessen wrote in “Rules for Autocracy.” http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2016/11/10/trump-election-autocracy-rules-for-survival/
Believe what he says. He lies, but when he says he will ban all Muslims, he means it. He is just looking for a way to get around the courts. He said he will build a wall. Believe him.
She wrote:
Rule #1: Believe the autocrat. He means what he says. Whenever you find yourself thinking, or hear others claiming, that he is exaggerating, that is our innate tendency to reach for a rationalization. This will happen often: humans seem to have evolved to practice denial when confronted publicly with the unacceptable. Back in the 1930s, The New York Times assured its readers that Hitler’s anti-Semitism was all posture. More recently, the same newspaper made a telling choice between two statements made by Putin’s press secretary Dmitry Peskov following a police crackdown on protesters in Moscow: “The police acted mildly—I would have liked them to act more harshly” rather than those protesters’ “liver should have been spread all over the pavement.” Perhaps the journalists could not believe their ears. But they should—both in the Russian case, and in the American one. For all the admiration Trump has expressed for Putin, the two men are very different; if anything, there is even more reason to listen to everything Trump has said. He has no political establishment into which to fold himself following the campaign, and therefore no reason to shed his campaign rhetoric. On the contrary: it is now the establishment that is rushing to accommodate him—from the president, who met with him at the White House on Thursday, to the leaders of the Republican Party, who are discarding their long-held scruples to embrace his radical positions.
April- Translation of what you are asking=Stop the Protests-Stop the resistance. No Thanks. Democracy will survive because of it.
He must be watching the news, seeing his Swedish gaffe and McCain’s true patriotism resound over and over.
It has to affect him. I think some kind of change is imminent. Probably a meltdown.
For narcissists truth is the enemy.
“Everything he says is a lie, including ‘and’ and ‘the’. “
Welcome to Nuremberg. Florida.
By Michael Moore, Michael Moore’s Facebook Page
19 February 17
Just so you understand: The rally Trump is holding right now near Orlando, Florida is, as his aides are calling it, “an official Re-Elect Trump 2020 campaign rally.” On Inauguration Day, Trump filed the legal papers with the Federal Election Commission to establish the “Re-Elect President Trump 2020 Committee.” No president has ever done this. Today’s rally is sponsored by and paid for by “Re-Elect Trump 2020”. I’m serious. This is happening. Trump doesn’t intend to leave until January, 2025. He’ll be close to 80 then. His filing, this rally, is his way of saying, “PRESIDENT FOR LIFE.” HIS life. Not exactly “a Reich that lasts 1,000 years,” but when you’re a massive narcissist, you don’t really give a shit about a thousand years from now — just the years when you’re going to be around to do the damage. Over 50,000 rabid Trump faithful have shown up to this massive rally now underway. This airport hangar can’t hold them all. My crew, unbeknownst to the Trump operatives, is inside. Welcome to Nuremberg. Florida.
There have been 30,334 deadly terrorist attacks in the world since 9/11. In the last 30 days there have been 127 attacks with 836 killed and 1059 injured. That includes the attack at SEHWAN PAKISTAN that killed 88 on the 17th and 55 killed in Baghdad on the 16th. There are several non-partisan, fact-based sites that try to keep track of this info. Some of this info came from THERELIGIONOFPEACE.com.
Linda,
Don you think the President of the US should stick to real facts?
I heard him emphasize that Sweden was the site of a terrorist attack Sweden!
Why is he so ill informed?
I just read an article in which Trump says he got the information from watching Fox news.
He is not a politician, so lying (shading the truth) is not ingrained in his style. Lying is not okay and encouraged by his religion as with Keith Ellison, or as with rino establishment types like McCain and Graham.
He doesn’t lie as much as you think. The media does lie and sugar coat. A story outside the political area … child hurt by adopted mother. News media runs with the story of the poor birth mother that the state ripped away from her and she yearns to have returned. Problems with the media angle 1) mother lost multiple kids because of drug addiction, syphilis and violence in the house. 2) mother is under investigation for trying to poison a relative for her money. But the mainstream media doesn’t report those facts. They turn the mother into a “poor me” victim.
Check Politifact. Trump lies regularly
I think it helps to put what you wrote in perspective.
Linda Giffin commented on Trump Lies…About Everything!. She wrote, “There have been 30,334 deadly terrorist attacks in the world since 9/11. In the last 30 days, there have been 127 attacks with 836 killed and 1059 injured.”
There are 196 countries in the world. The world’s population is 7.4 billion. In 2016, more than 72 million Americans traveled to other countries.
http://travel.trade.gov/view/m-2016-O-001/index.html
There are more than 324-million Americans.
http://www.census.gov/popclock/
What are the odds that a U.S. citizen will be a victim of a terrorist attack that takes place in the U.S. or a citizen traveling outside of the U.S.?
How is building a wall along the border between the U.S. and Mexico and blocking all Muslims from 7 Middle East countries, where only one resident of one those 7 countries took part in a terrorist attack on U.S. soil, going to stop what is happening outside of the U.S. or even in it?
Do you have any idea how many people have died in wars?
World War II was the deadliest military conflict in history in absolute terms of total casualties. Over 60 million people were killed, which was about 3% of the 1940 world population (est. 2.3 billion).
The Korean Conflict
Total dead: 367,283–750,282
The Vietnam War that was based on a lie from LBJ
North Vietnam/Viet Cong military and civilian war dead 533,000
Grand total of war deaths: Vietnam, Cambodia, and Laos (1954-1975) 1,450,000
The Iraq War that was based on another lie by another president, G. W. Bush
Various scientific surveys of Iraqi deaths resulting from the first four years of the Iraq War estimated that between 151,000 and over one million Iraqis died as a result of conflict during this time.[1] A later study, published in 2011, estimated that approximately 500,000 Iraqis had died as a result of the conflict since the invasion.[2] Counts of deaths reported in newspapers collated by projects like the Iraq Body Count project found 174,000 Iraqis reported killed between 2003 and 2013, with between 112,000-123,000 of those killed being civilian noncombatants
The war in Afghanistan
About 104,000 people have been killed in the Afghanistan war since 2001. More than 31,000 of those killed have been civilians. An additional 41,000 civilians have been injured since 2001.
Maybe the malignant narcissist will build walls around all of the countries where terrorist attacks take place, and make the people that live in those countries pay for all his walls.
Yep, he got it off the telee!
Our Chauncy Gardner wannabe!
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/320316-trump-clarifies-remarks-on-nonexistent-sweden-incident-i-got-it%3Famp?client=safari
The malignant narcissist Littlefingers Donald Trump’s (MNLDT) followers have been programmed to distrust all traditional media and all fact check sites.
MNLDT’s voice must be hypnotic.
From the fourth link in the posting.
How important is the parent-child relationship?
[start excerpt]
In his biography of Trump, The Lost Tycoon, Henry Hurt alleges Trump made the anecdote up to deceive Jewish tenants in his buildings.
“In his first book Donald implies that his paternal ancestors were of Swedish descent. That was another big white lie presumably designed to deceive the many Jewish tenants who occupied Trump-owned apartment complexes,” wrote Hurt. “Fred Trump’s father, who was also named Fred Trump, was German born in 1870.”
Similarly, the 1999 New York Times obituary of Fred C. Trump’s death states The Donald’s father made the claim for a similar reason.
“Frederick Christ (pronounced Krist) Trump was born in New York City in 1905,” reads the obituary. “From World War II until the 1980’s, Mr. Trump would tell friends and acquaintances that he was of Swedish origin, although both his parents were born in Germany.”
“John Walter, his nephew and the family historian, explained, ‘He had a lot of Jewish tenants and it wasn’t a good thing to be German in those days.’”
In a 1990 Vanity Fair profile of The Donald, Trump was confronted about his family not being Swedish, as he had claimed in The Art of Deal. Trump, the story said, was “evasive.”
[end excerpt]
The alternative fact branch doesn’t fall far from the alternative fact tree.
😎
April, many things about djt bother me so much that I can never support him. He mocks and belittles people, especially those who aren’t white. He will not release his tax returns, so we can’t see the companies and countries that he is beholden to. His election was evidently aided and abetted by Putin. This needs to be investigated. He has nominated cabinet members who revile the agencies they are put in charge of. Betsy DeVos hates public schools. Jeff Sessions is a racist from way back when. Pudzer is already out. Flynn- also out- has shady ties to Russia. If our president doesn’t pay taxes- and he is rich- why should any of us? I don’t want my tax dollars going for a wall, if our president doesn’t even pay taxes. He was only elected because of the electoral college. He did not receive the majority vote, unless you believe his lies.
Speaking of Sweden. One of the lies or zombie myths that the GOP is always vomiting up about Sweden is its supposed high suicide rate. This is always used to discredit Sweden’s great social programs that we can only dream of. According to WHO statistics from 2012, Sweden’s suicide rate is actually lower than the US’s. Can we please put this zombie myth to rest forever.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
Sweden is now the rape capitol of the world and this is a direct result of their terrible immigration policies. But of course the MSM isn’t going to report on this. You simply have to get off your a$$ and look it up for yourself or talk to an individual who actually is experiencing these issues first hand in Sweden.
You really are a special type of individual. Wanted to use a whole lot of other words, but trying to respect Diane’s rules.
In Sweden groping would be considered a form of sexual assault. Our dear leader loves groping beautiful women without their consent.
……….
….[The idea that refugees are responsible for sexual assault rates] falls apart as soon as you speak to anyone knowledgeable in Sweden.
“What we’re hearing is a very, very extreme exaggeration based on a few isolated events, and the claim that it’s related to immigration is more or less not true at all,” says Jerzy Sarnecki, a criminologist at Stockholm University who has devoted his career to the study of criminality, ethnicity and age.
Sweden does indeed have far more reported cases of sexual assault than any other country. But it’s not because Swedes — of any colour — are very criminal. It’s because they’re very feminist. In 2005, Sweden’s Social Democratic government introduced a new sex-crime law with the world’s most expansive definition of rape.
Imagine, for example, if your boss rubbed against you in an unwanted way at work once a week for a year. In Canada, this would potentially be a case of sexual assault. Under Germany’s more limited laws, it would be zero cases. In Sweden, it would be tallied as 52 separate cases of rape. If you engaged in a half-dozen sex acts with your spouse, then later you felt you had not given consent, in Sweden that would be classified as six cases of rape.
The marked increase in rape cases during the 2000s is almost entirely a reflection of Sweden’s deep public interest in sexual equality and the rights of women, not of attacks by newcomers.
By the Swedish definition, our Dear Leader is a serial rapist.
Here it is since you are too lazy to look it up or too naive to accept the truth. I’m assuming you can read text but in case you cannot, there is a graph included. https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/5195/sweden-rape
The Real One:
On the question of “rapes in Sweden.”
Every country has its own definition of what constitutes rape. What is considered “sexual assault” in some countries is treated as “rape” in Sweden. The definition matters.
Wikipedia has an expansive discussion of rape statistics in Sweden.
In 1996–long before the current immigration–Sweden had three times the reports of rapes committed as the average for 35 European nations.
If a woman said that her husband raped her every day of the year, that would be reported as 365 separate rapes.
Be careful when quoting Trump. He usually lies and knows nothing about statistics.
From Wikipedia:
“Ever since the collation of crime statistics was initiated by the Council of Europe, Sweden has had the highest number of registered rape offences in Europe by a considerable extent. In 1996, Sweden registered almost three times the average number of rape offences registered in 35 European countries. However, this does not necessarily mean rape is three times as likely to occur as in the rest of Europe, since cross-national comparisons of crime levels based on official crime statistics are problematic, due to a number of factors described below.[11][28][29][30]”
Save your words I wouldn’t want you blow a fuse or short circuit your brain. The link is below. If that’s not enough, go to youtube and type in Sweden rapes in the search box and look at all the videos detailing exactly what is going on there. Most of the videos are narrated by guess who? Swedes! But what the hell would they know about what is going on in their own Country. I think I would rather trust the opinion of true professional on the subject such as GregB.
Thank you, Carol. I was too angry to respond as coherently as you did. You provide an accurate picture of Sweden, probably one of the five nations in the world (all Scandinavian) that absolutely respect the rights and equality of women without conditions.
Please don’t waste time looking up the link provided by The Real One. “The Gatestone Institute” is a virtual rag that John Bolton is developing as his public mouthpiece, so it will skew anything toward its preconceived conclusions. Odd that he wouldn’t be transparent and call it johnbolton.net. The dribble cited is transparently skewed—anything that demeans those godless socialist Scandinavian countries will surely get printed—with a veneer of “academia.” Meryl Tisch is also one of the board members (in development).
No TRO, I’m not an expert, just spent a lot of time there, walked through cities in towns, taken a lot of public transportation, met a lot of people, made new friends, and learned to respect them greatly. Not one of the Swedes I know would recognize the Sweden you try to slander. Nor do I.
For Linda and April and other Trump apologists:
The following is from a life long Republican, Mark P. Painter: QUOTE – I am a lifelong Republican. I voted for every Republican presidential candidate from 1968 to 2004. But I have watched what once was a sane, center-right party go off the rails, first to the extreme right, then to wherever Trump is, which is in another universe.
It’s tough, but we must end this dangerous presidency. Trump must be impeached and removed with all haste. But only Congress can initiate the process. End Quote
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/opinion/contributors/2017/02/14/republican-painter-s-time-impeach-trump/97893248/
Great link Joe! I thought you were in Jersey.
Abigail: Yes, I am a lifelong NJ guy and I’m not leaving. Big fan of Bob Braun, Jersey Jazzman, Blue Jersey, NJ Spotlight, etc.
A man who lies to himself, and believes his own lies, becomes unable to recognize truth, either in himself or in anyone else, and he ends up losing respect for himself and for others. -Fyodor Dostoevsky, novelist (1821-1881)
From Wordsmith.org today.
the actual Trump business MO: self-delusion as policy
I’m still trying to figure out why anyone would support Trump. I found this news item on Snopes…it’s true. How many sheep follow Pat Robertson?
……………
Pat Robertson: Those Who Oppose Trump Are Revolting Against God’s Plan
The televangelist said during a 15 February 2017 broadcast that people who oppose President Trump are ‘revolting against what God’s plan is for America.’
By David Emery
Feb 16th, 2017
Televangelist Pat Robertson blamed the forced resignation of President Trump’s National Security Adviser Michael Flynn on “left-wingers and so-called progressives” in the federal government, whom he accused of trying to destroy the country and “revolting against what God’s plan is for America.”
He also suggested that members of the U.S. intelligence services committed a federal crime by listening in on a 29 December 2016 phone conversation between Flynn and Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak.
Robertson made the charges during a 15 February 2017 broadcast of The 700 Club in which he cited Bible passages in an effort to equate opposition to President Trump with disobedience to God…
GregB, Lloyd and Diane…..good advice from you all. I have a former student now in his 20s who is active duty U.S. military. I like the guy. He’s been linked to me on Facebook for years now and I’ve tried to engage him reasonably in dialogue the past few months. (He voted for Trump and loves his “brashness”.) Yesterday, this former student was writing how he can’t trust any of the mainstream media, that they are all enemies of the people. I didn’t “unfriend” or “defriend” or whatever it’s called this young man. But I did try to make it so I don’t see his nonsense repeated on my computer screen ever again. I can’t look at his crap anymore. GregB is right. It appears talking to this former student and people like him has been a waste of my time. I find that depressing. Very depressing. And, terrible to admit. I always want to talk to the kids I had in class no matter what has happened to them in their lives after graduation. The day after Christmas I went and visited another student, a different kid I had who is now locked up for a long time in a state prison. Here we were in this fortress-like prison surrounded by busted-up families who were trying to share some time together during the holiday season. That visit was NOT a waste of my time. These Trump apologists seem to be locked up in some sort of prison in their own minds. And, boy, are some of them bitter and angry. I went to one of the women’s marches here in upstate New York and the energy was so positive there. Then I talk to some of these Trump people and it’s attack, attack, attack. They won. They control the government. What more do they want?? To stomp us all into the ground? Don’t they understand that democracies typically have opposition parties, that free and open governments have debate and dissent? Their anger frightens me. Their irrationality frightens me. I’m not going to say they’ve made a deal with the devil but surely a demagogue. So, yes, I intend to commit my energy in other, more productive directions. And, judging from the news lately, millions of other citizens are moving in the same positive direction. That’s good news. But it sure is a terrible time for this country. Our “leader” is falling flat on his weird, orange, lying face. And now it’s up to us, the people, to put this thing called the United States back together again.
Very sobering comment, John. I’m under no illusion that the next few years will be very bleak and destructive. I fear your former student will see and experience some horrible things he isn’t even capable of imagining now. He may even pay with his life, perhaps willingly. I have a good friend—whose family has very little military history whatsoever—whose son is a candidate for the Naval Academy and a nephew who is serving in Lithuania who supports Donald. When I remind him that his son may likely be part of the generation that will pay the real costs of the consequences of Trumpism and that his nephew is literally on the front lines of the next war and in harm’s way, he says I’m delusional. As you may have seen from my past comments, I read and study a lot about German resistance in Nazi Germany. I’m under no illusion that they were a distinct, fractured, and small minority. But after the war, it was astounding how many Germans claimed to have supported them in spirit and how they never really were behind Hitler. This makes me wonder how many Americans, 10-20 years from now, will disavow Trumpism and claim they opposed it all along. I suspect these folks who support this regime with a “hear no, see no, speak no evil” ethic will be among the most ardent in their claims of never having said or believed what they actually said and believed. It’ll be important for you to remind and teach your future students about the truth.
I had a window, in the ’70’s, onto an ordinary middle-class German family who hosted my then-husband’s late-’60’s AFS year in Germany; we visited back & forth over a decade. The Dad had been in the Luftwaffe; they lived close to a rail line which had transported Jews & others to Bergen-Belsen (they were in fact downwind from the ovens at that camp). Mom and Dad had been members of the Hitler Youth.
They defended their youthful support of Hitler: they had experienced privations as children (including too little food, & a lack of public transportation to find jobs/ food– Hitler provided food & made the trains run again).
I remember watching a Polish movie w/ the family via cable-TV a depicting rapes of Polish women by German invaders, which the Dad stoutly denied. When asked about family membership in the Nazi party, they pointed out that Grandpa, a house-painter, could get no work w/o signing up.
As to the cattle-cars they saw headed for the camp, they said were told they carried Russian POW’s. They had no explanation for the smell that came from Bergen-Belsen, & clearly could not conceive of nor countenance the reality of the death-camp ovens. By the time they visited us stateside in late ’70’s, they were holocaust-deniers. These folk were definitely not among those who claimed they were never behind Hitler.
But this family’s kids (boomers) had a whole different take: they blamed their parents’ generation for buying into dictatorship, causing it to be divided [they were only sporadicallly allowed to visit their cousins in the East] & ruining its reputation: they were ashamed.
One postscript: do they all want “to stomp us into the ground?” You are onto something very important. They do want to. They want to eliminate doubt, the others (liberals, scientists, etc.) and make America the embodiment of the Marlboro Man sans the messy stuff about cancer. Their limited sense of decency stops short of saying things out loud about concentration/reeducation/internment camps. But that helps explain their concentrated venom about immigrants, Muslims and, depending on what part of the country they live in, African Americans and Latinos. They provide “respectable” outlets of disgust for them. But if they are successful in legally and socially ostracizing their first targets, they will soon move along to find others.
You can block e-mails from specific people or sites and those e-mails will go into your SPAM folder/file.
I did it to an old friend of mine I’ve known since we were children before adolescence hit. He wouldn’t stop preaching the mantra of the far, far, far, religious, political right. I repeatedly told him I didn’t want to hear that crap, but he couldn’t help himself. He’d stop for a few days or weeks and then his obsession was back. He’s been totally seduced to the dark side of the force, and he is not my friend any longer.
There is no talking to these people.
Headline in Washington Post: Trump supporters see a successful president — and are frustrated with critics who don’t
By Jenna Johnson and David Weigel February 19 at 6:44 PM
…“There’s such hatred for the man,” she said. “I just don’t get it.”
It was a common sentiment at the rally in an airplane hangar here, flanked by Air Force One and attended by about 9,000 people. There were chants of “CNN sucks!” and “Tell the truth!” A pre-rally speaker gleefully announced that the president had given the media “a spanking.”…
Rally attendees panned coverage of the chaos within his administration, the cost of security for his family and the president’s now-halted executive order that briefly banned refugees and residents of seven Muslim-majority countries. Many acknowledged that the president’s first month could have been smoother, especially with the rollout of the travel ban, but they said the media has overblown those hiccups — and they’re glad to see the president fight back and label the media on Twitter Friday as “the enemy of the American People!”
“It was hilarious to see him give it to the media,” said Tony Lopez, 28, a car dealer who drove to the rally from Orlando. “The media’s problem is that they keep wanting to make up stories so that he looks bad. It doesn’t work. He’s talking right through you guys.”
Several people said they would have liked to see more coverage of a measure that Trump signed Thursday that rolled back a last-minute Obama regulation that would have restricted coal mines from dumping debris in nearby streams. At the signing, Trump was joined by coal miners in hard hats.
“If he hadn’t gotten into office, 70,000 miners would have been put out of work,” Patricia Nana, a 42-year-old naturalized citizen from Cameroon. “I saw the ceremony where he signed that bill, giving them their jobs back, and he had miners with their hard hats and everything — you could see how happy they were.”
The regulation actually would have cost relatively few mining jobs and would have created nearly as many new jobs on the regulatory side, according to a government report — an example of the frequent distance between Trump’s rhetoric, which many of his supporters wholeheartedly believe, and verifiable facts.
[Fact Checker: Trump made 13 dubious claims during his Florida rally]
http://wapo.st/2m1V25X?tid=ss_mail
“…“There’s such hatred for the man,” she said. “I just don’t get it.”
You could have found the same quote when Obama was elected.
Which points us toward the serious challenge to democracy presented by the polarization of US politics today. The middle ground
Is fast losing representation.
I am currently reading “Submission” by Michel Houllebecq. It is an almost-sci-fi (yet rational) projection of current French politics. At one point he notes that that middle-ground folks– having been raised & immersed comfortably in their way of life– do not give credence to extremists– who, having gained little from the status quo, & who expect nothing from it, contemplate its extinction with no particular fear.
I estimate 1/3 of the nation are really supporters of DJT. A certain percent will nominally choose support on surveys but don’t know him or what’s going on in the world. Maybe 1/5 or even something like 1/10 are truly hardcore, to some degree nuts. 1/5 must be too much. Then again 1/3 is quite a chunk, and the earlier surveys had it up around 1/2. Of course he won the election, 3 million or so shy of the popular vote.
The only true thing Trump ever said: “I love the uneducated.” His people.
In other news:
Putin hacks Trump’s brain,
While a Mad Dog appears relatively sane.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcnews.com/news/world/amp/russia-compiles-psychological-dossier-trump-putin-n723196?client=safari
Okay, it’s not even close to SomeDAMPoet, or Pushkin.
Don’t believe the main stream (fake news) media.The White House is running VERY WELL. I inherited a MESS and am in the process of fixing it.
2 days ago – Twitter
No, the surge of actual fake news was created in your wake, Don John. You are railing against the fact-checking and rightful criticism. Gave up on SNL because you were just fanning the flames of free publicity.
You did not inherit a mess, unless you are talking about your expressed genetic traits. You don’t know how to change or implement anything because you think this is a TV production and you’ve surrounded yourself with crazy.
morning joe is no help….he rattles off a list of Trump’s lies….and caps it off with an admonishment to trump…Jesus said people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. Do southrernors actually ever read their bibles…religious illiterate jerk.
Do Trump supporters such as the ones who posted here, April and Linda, pay attention to and read reputable newspapers about what’s happening other than what 45 says? It doesn’t seem so.
Mike Pence has spent recent days in Europe reassuring Allies that, despite what the POTUS says, the US remains committed to the security of Europe; while Pence was attempting to reassure NATO partners on Saturday, Trump was at a rally criticizing NATO.
The Secretary of Defense Mattis is in Iraq telling Iraqi Leaders that what the POTUS has said about our relationship and oil isn’t accurate; he’s there to reassure leaders. Nikki Haley, 45’s UN envoy, is contradicting her boss’s statement that he’s open to a one state solution on Palestine, saying ” we’re absolutely committed to a two state solution.” John McCain is giving television and news magazine interviews because he’s concerned about Russia’s involvement with the election, about Mike Flynn’s secret and illegal talks with Russia, and about 45’s declaration that the free American press is an enemy of the state. Sweden is baffled and offended that 45 claims “something happened” Friday night in that country, inferring it was a terrorist attack. 45 later explains he made his remarks based on a brief news tidbit he watched on FOX news.
In just one weekend at least four people in 45’s Administration and one foreign country contradicted his policy statements. How can this reality not concern Trump supporters?
I’m extremely concerned about Trump’s clear objective to dismantle clean air and water; dismantle agencies that promote scientific inquiry; dismantle public education for all children, dismantle health care; dismantle our national parks and recreation, and to dismantle the first amendment.
But I’m more concerned that we have a president who treats his position like it’s a reality tv show that you just make up as you go. The
Indeed, these are frightening times.
Reblogged this on Mister Journalism: "Reading, Sharing, Discussing, Learning" and commented:
Trump Lies…About Everything!
by dianeravitch
At his rally in Florida yesterday, he told the crowd about a terrorist incident in Sweden, but there was no terrorist incident in Sweden.
There were however terrorist attacks in Iraq, directed against Muslims, but these attacks do not appear on Trump’s radar because he is only concerned about white people.
Trump has repeatedly claimed that he is of Swedish descent, but that isn’t true either. His father and grandfather were German. That’s nothing to be ashamed of. Why does he lie about everything?
Want to know how often Trump lies? Politifact says that 50% of his statements are either “false” or “pants on fire.” Another 20% are rated “mostly false.” Only 16% of his statements are rated either “true” or “mostly true.” 14% are “half true.”
The default position for any thinking citizen is to assume that whatever he says, other than his name, is not true. Check the facts before believing anything he says.
dianeravitch | February 19, 2017 at 3:30 pm | Categories: Lies, Trump | URL: http://wp.me/p2odLa-gyW
I heard the speech, there is no mention of a “terrorist” incident?
Joseph,
Trump said to the crowd, did you hear what happened in Sweden on Friday?
Did you miss that part? I saw it and heard it. Multiple times on every news channel.
here is the event.
http://www.friatider.se/riots-and-looting-notorios-stockholm-suburb
fake news is after him.
Joseph,
9/11 was the worst terrorist event in our history on our soil.
Next was Timothy McVeigh blowing up the federal office building in Oklahoma City in 1995. Nearly 300 people were murdered.
What is your point?
I did some digging into FriaTider, the site Joseph follows. Here’s what I found after the site was translated into English. Joseph is turning to an alternative news media site that supports the Russians and it is probably one of Putin’s misinformation websites.
“Free Times (FriaTider) is a Swedish immigration critical online magazine . [ 2 ] It is detached and describes himself as a libertarian conservative, but in ideological terms considered to be close to the Sweden Democrats and especially the party’s former youth SDU . [ 3 ] [ 4 ] free times, in a report published by the National Media Council classified as “part of the radical right-wing populist line environment”. [ 5 ]
The newspaper is owned by the Estonian stock company FT News Group OÜ based in Tallinn , where even its Internet servers are located. [ 6 ] [ 7 ] Free Times, which published only on the web and therefore not eligible for state press subsidies , [ 8 ] financed by subscription revenues, donations and revenues from advertising.”
…
“During the unrest in Ukraine in 2014 published free times a main leader where the Western media reporting on police assault from Viktor Yanukovych ‘s regime was dismissed as “political propaganda to get rid of a government that stands in the way of US and EU power ambitions in the East. ” [ 39 ] from the Center for European Studies at Lund University was criticized by the Free times researcher Niklas Bernsand, who argued that the newspaper” specifically chosen to give its support to the Russian line “on the issue. [ 40]
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fria_Tider#Kritik
RE: DU – Nationalism is a very important part of the union ideology.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sverigedemokratisk_ungdom_(1993)#Ideologi
Thanks, Lloyd, I assumed he was drawing on an alt-right site, a great source of white nationalist propaganda.
Here are some other outlets reporting it on zerohedge.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-20/meanwhile-rioting-breaks-out-sweden
Joseph,
Why don’t we deport all the immigrants who came from outside? Return the land to the Native Americans. Ok?
“Zero Hedge is an English-language financial blog that aggregates news and presents editorial opinions from original and outside sources. The news portion of the site is written by a group of editors who collectively write under the pseudonym “Tyler Durden” (a character from the novel and film Fight Club).
Zero Hedge’s content has been classified as conspiratorial, anti-establishment, and economically pessimistic,[3] and has been criticized for presenting extreme and sometimes pro-Russian views”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge
I suspect that Joseph is one of Putin’s agents.
Llloyd, you have a penchant for name calling along with bringing back the red scare, as the media is doing. I try just to look for the truth and Wapo is leading in fake news, now that I have shown you numerous reports on the events in Sweden. I don’t particularly like Trump, but he is our president, despite “alleged” Russian ties with “no proof”. Assange would have it published by now. Were all of those publications a fabrication and conspiracy to support his speech? The deep state and liberals are coming together to bring down the democracy. I kind of prefer leaving the power with the people not Wikipedia. The rage of the losing party is bringing us there. I don’t measure ideas as being pro-Russian, unless Wikileaks has an agenda. No pro Russian ideas were mentioned, give me an example, a peace agreement in Syria?, not having NATO missiles on its borders?, not having a hostile failed State (Ukraine) on its border as a result of a coup?
Joseph,
If you can read, you would have learned by now that the FBI has multiple investigations of the communications between the Trump campaign and Russian agents during the campaign. The pro-Putin, anti-American Ukraine party paid Paul Manafort, former campaign director, $12.5 million. Why would Assange report any of this? The Russians were leaking to Assange to help Trump.
Diane, the issue is not being able to read, but being able to bring context to the story.
Deep State machinations in the NYT and WaPo can not be swallowed whole. Thus far we have seen no evidence or facts supporting these stories and it’s no secret that Trump is looking to shake things up, just as JFK did. It seems that factions within the deep state are in conflict.
Joseph,
What part of JFK are you comparing Trump to?
Certainly not intellect or humor or taste.
JFK was going to end the cold war with Russia after the Cuban Missile Crisis and pull all of the troops out of Viet Nam. He fired CIA Director Dulles after the Bay of Pigs and threatened to break the CIA into a “thousand pieces”. Like Russia today, we had missiles on their border in Turkey, prompting the missiles in Cuba from Russia. We are in a very serious problem today. Kerry had a Syrian Peace Treaty with the Russians and someone decided to bomb and kill 100 Syrian soldiers in an American airstrike. Trump sees that we need to work with Russia. Syria will only be at peace with an agreement, which will satisfy those with an interest in the energy projects that are envisioned there.
Joseph,
I don’t know what your sources are but they are wrong.
JFK did not fire John Foster Dulles. Dulles died in 1959, before JFK was elected.
If JFK planned to end the Cold War and withdraw from Vietnam, he forgot to tell his Secretary of Defense and Secretary of State. Robert McNamara and Dean Rusk served in those positions for both JFK and LBJ. Both were hawks.
JFK did fire Dulles … ALLEN DULLES, THE YOUNGER BROTHER OF JOHN FOSTER DULLES. Allen has a very merkey history that includes giving McCarthy bad information, via a break in into the office and planting info, in order to discredit McCarthy. Then there was the horrible fiasco known as the BAY OF PIGS INVASION. After JFK fired Allen Dulles he remained, but many hold the belief that it was Allen that orchestrated the JFK assassination.
John Foster Dulles was five years older than Allen and served as Secretary of State under Eisenhower.
Linda, that is too wacky for me to follow. McCarthy was discredited by bad information? News to me. I thought he was discredited by being a fascist bully.
Also, I never heard the preposterous claim that Allen Dulles orchestrated the JFK assassination. I thought it was Ted Cruz’s father. That’s what Trump said.
Name calling, you claim.
BS! Just because you can make that accusation doesn’t mean you are right, and I reject your allegation.
The sources you rely on to support your thinking are similar to the sources the malignant narcissist in the White House uses to support his flawed and corrupt, biased, hate-filled thinking.
Both of you use alternative media that rely on alternative facts that are nothing less than lies to support agendas based on greed is good and/or religious extremism.
That is not name calling. That is calling a rock what it is, a rock.
Lord Acton said it best.
“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men, even when they exercise influence and not authority; still more when you superadd the tendency of the certainty of corruption by authority.”
In some cases, ad hominem attacks can be non-fallacious; i.e., if the attack on the character of the person is directly tackling the argument itself. For example, if the truth of the argument relies on the truthfulness of the person making the argument—rather than known facts—then pointing out that the person has previously lied is not a fallacious argument.
Here are some statistics on Trump’s claim that the media is an “enemy of the American People’:
Ariel Edwards-Levy: “A narrow majority of President Donald Trump’s supporters agree with him that the media is their enemy, a new HuffPost/YouGov survey finds, although most Americans overall don’t feel similarly. Trump tweeted last Friday that the media is the ‘enemy of the American People,’ a statement that drew criticism from many reporters and disavowals even from some members of his party. Most Trump voters, 51 percent, say the media is an enemy to people like them, according to the poll, with 36 percent considering the media unfriendly, and just 5 percent saying it’s friendly or an ally. Overall, 22 percent of Americans consider the media an enemy to people like them, with 19 percent saying it’s unfriendly, 21 percent that it’s friendly, and 14 percent that it’s an ally.” [HuffPost]
………
How sad that we have a President who claims the media is the enemy just because it doesn’t worship him. I lived in a country where the media is controlled by the government. How tiring it gets to always read how wonderful the leader is. He was portrayed to be just like a perfect father figure.
Trump’s lies sbout Russia: check out CSPAN’s Atlantic Council Discussion Focuse onTensions Betwen Russia and Ukraine.
Here are some great quotes from conservatives regarding our new leader Drumpf…
…………………
Trump is a “short-fingered vulgarian”—Graydon Carter, Spy Magazine (1988)
“I wouldn’t believe Donald Trump if his tongue were notarized.”—New York Deputy Mayor Alair Townsend.
“I wouldn’t believe Donald Trump if his tongue was notarized.”—Leona Helmsley (“Playboy”, Nov 1990). Now, who did say it first?
Trump is a “bloviating ignoramus”—George F. Will (2012)
“[Trump] lives in a cocoon of solipsism where the world outside himself has value—indeed exists—only insofar as it sustains and inflates him.”—Charles Krauthammer (2016)
“Trump is the demagogue that America’s founders feared”—Michael Gerson (2016)
“Donald Trump is epically unprepared to be president. He has no realistic policies, no advisers, no capacity to learn. His vast narcissism makes him a closed fortress. He doesn’t know what he doesn’t know and he’s uninterested in finding out.”—David Brooks (2016)
Trump is a “complete idiot … graceless and divisive.”—Karl Rove (2016)
Trump is “dangerously unhinged.”—Glenn Beck (2016)
Trump is “loathsome,” “a con man” and “a charlatan and a demagogue” who is “soiling the robe of conservatism.”—Bill Kristol (2016)
“It is deeply unfair to say that Trump lies all the time. I would never have suggested that he lies while he’s asleep.”—Mark Singer, author, “Trump and Me” (2016)
“He [Drumpf] doesn’t want to be President—he just wants people to vote for him,”—Mark Singer, “Trump and Me”
“I’m a New Yorker, and I know a con when I see one.”—Michael Bloomberg (2016)
“Never underestimate Trump’s ignorance … Trump is crude, mean and prejudiced—but most notably he is the least-informed candidate to run for the presidency in modern times.”—Jennifer Rubin (2016)
“The mystery is how anyone finds him [Drumpf] acceptable.”—Kathleen Parker (2016)
Carol Malaysia, that’s an impressive summary. How did you find it? You should have included what Rubio, Cruz, and Romney said.
I got the quotes from a comment that some reader posted online on a Washington Post article that I was reading this morning. Sorry, that it isn’t something that can be accessed.
They are fantastic quotes. They show that Trump isn’t well liked by many well known conservative people.
The CSPAN show cited above: not about Trump at all. But as you delve into 20thC Russia/ Ukraine history, & get informed viewpoints on Putin’s policies from scholars, you contrast Trump’s steady jawboning to normalize Putin’s Russia as just another country like us, hey they’re not communists anymore. It’s a huge lie geared to appeal to his anti-commie-socialism low-info core followers.
Putin is all about returning Russia to the global influence held under Czars & soviets. Ukraine is a thorn in his side with their Holodomor memorials reminding the world of soviet-perpetrated savagery equivalent to Cambodia under Pol Pot, w/ casualties on the scale of those seen in Hitler’s Germany. Putin’s silence on that while aggressing against sovereign Ukraine deserves continued sanctions, not ‘let’s be friends’.
Thanks, Bethree. The definitive book on Ukraine and the Soviets is Robert Conquest’s Harvest of Shame. Ukraine was an independent nation that was known as the breadbasket of Europe. In the 1930s, Stalin engaged in a campaign to brutalize and starve the Ukrainians into submission. Their crops were seized and Ukrainians starved to death. As in other occupied countries, Stalin settled large numbers of Russians to Russify Ukraine. Trump, in his ignorance, wants to help Putin achieve his goal of recovering Ukraine for a new USSR.
This isn’t about Trump’s lies but it covers a major problem that is in the US which most likely will not be addressed in a proper manner. Republicans are now finding out that people care about their health insurance and that getting rid of ACA will cause problems for millions. Single Payer or Medicare for All is needed if we are to have a healthy populace. Unfortunately, the wealthy lobbyists of insurance companies and drug companies aren’t pushing for that.
Most of Congress and our President don’t care.
…………
U.S. life expectancy will soon be on par with Mexico’s and the Czech Republic’s
By Lenny Bernstein February 21 at 6:30 PM
Life expectancy at birth will continue to climb substantially for residents of industrialized nations — but not in the United States,…
“Notable among poor-performing countries is the USA,” the researchers wrote, “whose life expectancy at birth is already lower than most other high-income countries, and is projected to fall further behind, such that its 2030 life expectancy at birth might be similar to the Czech Republic for men, and Croatia and Mexico for women.”…
The reasons for the United States’ lag are well known. It has the highest infant and maternal mortality rates of any of the countries in the study, and the highest obesity rate. It is the only one without universal health insurance coverage and has the “largest share of unmet health-care needs due to financial costs,” the researchers wrote….
In contrast to the United States, South Korea “has a remarkable investment in early childhood nutrition,” has been taking advantage of medical advances and technology across its population and has some of the world’s lowest obesity and hypertension rates, Ezzati said. The researchers said there is a 57 percent chance that the nation’s women will live an average of more than 90 years by 2030 and a better than 95 percent chance that its men will survive beyond 80 (along with men in Australia and Switzerland)….
http://wapo.st/2kJy6vv?tid=ss_mail
Lloyd, being reduced to calling someone a Russian spy when you disagree is pure McCarthyism. Quotes from Lord Acton are no redemption.
Joseph,
I think what Lloyd is telling you is that you don’t know much about Putin or Russia.
Joseph runs true to form and twists what others say as he continues to Troll them.
Here’s what I said, “I suspect that Joseph is one of Putin’s agents.” That is not the same as calling someone a spy.
If I had called Joseph a spy for Putin, I would have written,”Joseph is a spy for Putin.”
The definition for Suspect used as a verb: have an idea or impression of the existence, presence, or truth of (something) without certain proof. … doubt the genuineness or truth of.
The reason I suspect this is because I can’t prove that even though Joseph repeatedly uses links to Alternative News sites that use alternative facts (lies and misinformation) to support Putin’s agenda, that he is actually, in fact, a spy for Putin.
Instead, Joseph could just as easily be an alleged, deplorable, biased, easy and willing to be fooled individual who is not a spy.
thank goodness, only a Russian agent, Lloyd, though your dismissive summary of people with whom you disagree could be more endearing. Do all Russian “agents” have my weaknesses? It is fortunate that this site has a gatekeeper like yourself to protect it from those who have various sources of information, which depart from the current “group think”, that there was not an issue of disruptive immigrants in Sweden, hardly a domestic issue to get angry about.
Joseph, if your sources told you that JFK fired Dulles–who died before JFK was elected–they are very unreliable sources.
My comments are only my opinions. I don’t think for anyone else like most of the malignant narcissist’s followers allegedly let him think for them without fact checking his constant stream of lies through valid media sources, not Alt-Right and/or Putin’s misleading media machine.
How creepy is this?
……….
Arizona bill: Police can now arrest peaceful protesters to prevent riot
By Howard Fischer Capitol Media Services Feb 23, 2017
PHOENIX — Claiming people are being paid to riot, Republican state senators voted Wednesday to give police new power to arrest anyone who is involved in a peaceful demonstration that may turn bad — even before anything happens.
SB 1142 would expand the state’s racketeering laws, now aimed at organized crime, to also include rioting. It would redefine rioting to include actions resulting in damage to others’ property.
By including rioting in racketeering laws, the proposal would permit police to arrest people who are planning events. Sen. John Kavanagh, R-Fountain Hills, a former police officer, said if there are organized groups, “I should certainly hope that our law enforcement people have some undercover people there.”…
http://tucson.com/news/local/crime/senate-oks-poli…
The seeds of a bloody rebellion are being planted by bills like Arizona’s SB 1142.
Then there is civil forfeiture.
“many folks are unfamiliar with the idea of civil forfeiture, which is actually a case brought against, directly against a piece a property, where you don’t need to be proven guilty of a crime for your goods to be taken away. And many of the conventional protections that you have under the criminal process are not afforded to you in a civil forfeiture case.” …
“And you don’t have a right to a lawyer.”
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/nation-july-dec13-assets_08-19/
Federal law still allows for PEACEFUL PROTESTS. They have always been a useful method of letting one’s voice be heard. BUT, peaceful protests have been HIJACKED BY RIOTERS whose only purpose has been to cause CHAOS and DESTRUCTION. That has ALWAYS BEEN AGAINST THE LAW. It looks like this sb 1142 in Arizona simply reaches out to punish the organizers of lawless events instead of leaving them untouched.
We have had eight years where individual rights have been eroded by government officials that encouraged lawlessness. We have witnessed our courts legislating from the bench, rather than applying the laws as written and leaving the legislating to Congress. The reason Trump was elected was because people recognized we stand to loose ALL of our individual rights and freedoms unless we once again become a nation that follows its laws for everyone.
Visualize a nation where the loudest few get to control the majority. That is NOT a democracy, but it is where the rioters are taking this country. Why punish just the rioters? Why not punish those that sit in the shadows and plan the riots as well? Conspiracy to commit a crime is against the law, so it is punishable.
It is time to ask yourself … If rioters can and do make America an UNGOVERNABLE nation, what kind of nation will we be left with? One of the big failings of people like Marx is the fact they never had a method for finalizing their “dream”. You had their beginning and their ending dream, but no middle method for a completed plan. Even Hillary Clinton saw that flaw in the works of her mentor Saul Alinsky. Alinsky wanted to entirely destroy the government and start over. Clinton wanted to keep a few key governmental agencies in order to maintain control more efficiently while creating a new government.
America is a nation of laws and we are just returning to that idea of following our Laws for the benefit of everyone.
Our nation has been hijacked by Putin, who installed a puppet
How do we get back our democracy other than by protests and eventually voting this crazy selfish bunch out?
The election of Trump was a PROTEST. Rioting, violence, destruction and not only speaking up BUT LISTENING TO OTHERS that is what we need, but the parties on the LEFT are refusing. Your blog demeans everyone that does NOT agree with you. You cannot have a democracy in an environment that doesn’t embrace those differences.
Someone asked me the other day how many conservatives (not rinos or establishment types) worked for the major mainstream media, magazines and newspapers. Sadly, out of the two dozen or so off the top of my head there were none and less than five in the rino establishment type. But, when looking at conservative news outlets there was a healthier representation for both sides of the issues.
There are always AT LEAST TWO SIDES to an issue … unless it is propaganda. Propaganda is there only to tell you WHAT TO THINK, never let you make up your own mind. If people have choices and can make up their own minds they are to hard to control. With propaganda, however, it is easy to lead people to riot … they only believe what they have been told.
The United States is a Constitutional Republic, and the law is based on the U.S. Constitution.
Every law in the United States from the local to national level must survive a legal test in a court to see if it is Unconstitutional according to the U.S. Constitution and then each states’ constitution.
The federal and state governments we had when the malignant narcissist in the White House lied when he took the oath of office came about through that U.S. Constitution. Getting rid of the federal government through executive orders without a legal challenge that relies on the U.S. Constitution means we are no longer a nation of law based on the U.S. Constitution and the Republic it supports.
Reporters Without Borders (RWB) ranked the United States #41 in its 2016 World Press Freedom Index.
What will RWB rank the U.S. for 2017?
Constitution of the United States of America
Amendment 1
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
The 1st Amendment was ratified by our Founding Fathers in 1791 while George Washington was still our 1st President.
This country has protested PEACEFULLY all its existence. The problem is we now have people organizing and or carrying out RIOTING, NOT PROTESTING. Peaceful protests cannot legally block traffic, imped the public in ANY MANNER , or damage property either individual private property or public property.. When those elements occur you have CRIMINALS NOT PROTESTORS.
I realize for the last few years the government under Obama encouraged rioting and looked the other way. That had never happened before in our history. Looking the other way, not the rioting, that has always been against the law. It was because this country was becoming lawless that you saw people coming out to vote for Trump. You do NOT have to break the law in order to protest. But, if you riot you ARE BREAKING THE LAWS and punishment WILL occur for the rioter AND the organizer that CONSPIRED TO RIOT. Even the ACLU used to have a brochure for protestors that laid out the etiquette for peaceful law abiding protesting. But, as the control of that organization changed, so did their policies.
Your first sentence was wrong. Protests have not always been peaceful. The U.S. Founding Fathers started out with peaceful and when that didn’t budge a tyrant, then the protest became violent.
The Civil War was a protest by the 13 southern states because slavery had been abolished under President Lincoln.
History.com lists 6 Violent Uprising in the United States
Wilmington Insurrection of 1898
On the morning of November 10, 1898, a throng of some 2,000 armed white men took to the streets of the Southern port town of Wilmington, North Carolina. Spurred on by white supremacist politicians and businessmen, the mob burned the offices of a prominent African-American newspaper, sparking a frenzy of urban warfare that saw dozens of blacks gunned down in the streets.
Only 10 days after the Union victory at the Battle of Gettysburg, New York City became embroiled in the largest popular insurrections in American history. The incident began on the morning of July 13, 1863, when hundreds of young men poured into the streets to protest the federal draft lottery. …
he bedlam would continue for four days, as rioters looted businesses, torched buildings and brawled with police and National Guardsmen from behind makeshift barricades.
For the other Four, click the link and educate yourself with the facts; the truth.
http://www.history.com/news/history-lists/6-violent-uprisings-in-the-united-states
Lloyd,
You barely scratched the surface of violence and violent protests, such as the burning of Catholic churches and orphanages in the 1840s. Violence against blacks, Jews, others.
You are right. I knew that I barely scratched the surface. The practice of peaceful protests started during the Civil Rights era at the urging of King and his movement.
For instance, not all of the Vietnam War protests were peaceful.
“The following year, Nixon claimed in a famous speech that anti-war protesters constituted a small–albeit vocal–minority that should not be allowed to drown out the “silent majority” of Americans. Nixon’s war policies divided the nation still further, however: In December 1969, the government instituted the first U.S. draft lottery since World War II, inciting a vast amount of controversy and causing many young men to flee to Canada to avoid conscription. Tensions ran higher than ever, spurred on by mass demonstrations and incidents of official violence such those at Kent State in May 1970, when National Guard troops shot into a group of protesters demonstrating against the U.S. invasion of Cambodia, killing four students.”
http://www.history.com/topics/vietnam-war/vietnam-war-protests
There was also the Weather Underground, a group that used bombing to protest. This group fell apart after the United States reached a peace accord in Vietnam in 1973.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_Underground
And Wiki gives us a list of incidents of civil unrest in the U.S. It isn’t a short list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
They cease being protests when they turn violent.
Linda,
Many, many violent protests in US history.
They may have started out as a protest, but the minute they turned VIOLENT and/or DESTRUCTIVE they are no longer considered protests. At that point they are riots and a violation of US laws.
I am surprised you pick at this since it was Obama that signed into law further restriction against protesting that comes very close to being a slippery slope for our First Amendment rights.
It was the law that Obama signed that made it a federal crime to protest anyone with Secret Service coverage. So if Betsy Devos has Secret Service protection ANYONE protesting her is in violation of federal law and subsequent criminal action.
That law which has been on the books for a few years outlaws the protesting of individuals with Secret Service protection as well as prohibiting certain locations, public or not.
Like it or not, once that line is crossed, and protesting becomes violent or destructive the protest becomes a riot and is no longer a protest. As a “spontaneous”riot, or a planned riot, it is violation of federal law and violators are subject to the consequences imposed by those laws.
Betsy DeVos does not have Secret Service protection. She is protected by U.S. Marshalls. They are not the Secret Service.
Did you look at the list of violent civil disorders that Lloyd shared with you? I think not.
Third paragraph, second sentence, third word … IF … used to set up an understandable scenario. I used Betsy Devos only because I know how you feel about her. I could have used President Trump … while he was Candidate Trump … just as easily.
“They may have started out as a protest, but the minute they turned VIOLENT and/or DESTRUCTIVE they are no longer considered protests. At that point they are riots and a violation of US laws.”
It’s easy for tyrants to pass laws. Just because there is a law does not make that a just law.
For instance, Hitler and his Nazi Party passed laws/legislation that led to the slaughter of millions in concentration camps and the confiscation of their property and wealth.
The U.S. passed a law back in the 19th century that blocked Asians from entering the U.S. and becoming citizens.
Then the U.S. gathered up and threw Japanese-American citizens into concentration camps during World War II and those citizens lost their homes and businesses. When the war ended, they had to start over from scratch.
That’s why Thomas Jefferson said, “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”
Soon if not now, it might be time to refresh the tree of liberty again and purge those evil laws that limit the freedom of people. When peaceful protests of tyranny turn violent, it is not a riot. Those are the first shots of a revolution; a civil war to refresh the tree of liberty with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
And individuals like me who speak out in forums like this will be among the first to be rounded up and locked away for daring to express what we think. When that happens, it will be a direct violation of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution unless I have joined the forces of the rebellion to refresh the tree of liberty. I will not join a riot. But I will join the army led by real generals that rises up to fight the tyranny of the malignant narcissist in the White House.
http://www.politicususa.com/2016/09/09/hillary-clinton-tops-trumps-88-list-110-generals-admirals-backing.html
Really, and you are the expert. If it is just your opinion, that’s okay, but you are not the judge of this.
There are peaceful protests and then there are violent protests. That is a fact.
Here is a longer list of protests, incidents of civil unrest, in the United States. The list is LONG.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_civil_unrest_in_the_United_States
When peaceful protests are ignored, violent protests are often the result.
Thanks for that. Lloyd. Anyone who has studied American history is aware of the very large numbers of violent protests, motivated by outrage against unjust authority or by bigotry and hatred.
Those who pay rioters like the NGOs and George Soros make it difficult for the average citizen. This is what causes the “color revolutions” around the world, along with their provocateurs. I suspect that Occupy Wall Street will be the model of how the State puts them down. We do have a long history of demonstrations being put down, such as Gen Douglas MacArthur routing the WW l veterans in DC seeking their bonus after the war. The color revolution in Syria was a modest affair until outside powers began funding it. I hope that the US does not become a failed State like Ukraine and Syria due to such funding.
Joseph,
Where is your proof that George Soros and NGOs have paid any rioters?
I was at a meeting of the education advisory committee of the Soros Foundation last week, and everyone there was an education expert, mostly from other nations in Africa.
I heard no discussion of paying rioters.
You must have a source. Share it.
If you can’t, you are about to be banned for your constant reference to far-right fringe conspiracy theories. You have nothing thoughtful or honest or original to say. You are an echo chamber for the alt-right media.
Where is your proof that someone paid those rioters? If you can’t provide a money trail to the source, a direct link, then it is only an allegation that supports another conspiracy theory. I think you have something in common with the malignant narcissist in the White Houe. You both believe conspiracy theories with nothing but alternative facts (lies) to support that belief.
These people are dangerous to our democracy!! How long are we going to suffer under Trump and his lunacy? What will be coming next?
………………..
FEB. 23, 2017, 12:10 P.M.
REPORTING FROM NATIONAL HARBOR, MD.
Trump advisor Steve Bannon rails at ‘corporatist, globalist media’
Noah Bierman
The two men with the most heavily dissected relationship in President Trump’s White House held a rare public appearance together Thursday and agreed on one common enemy: the media.
Reince Priebus, the chief of staff who is often described as “embattled,” said he has grown “conditioned” to the media counting Trump out: during the presidential campaign, the transition and the first month of the presidency.
“The biggest misconception is everything that you’re reading,” Priebus said.
Steve Bannon, Trump’s chief strategist, framed his complaint as an ideological war. He consistently called the media “the opposition party” throughout a 20-minute joint interview on stage at the Conservative Political Action Conference just outside of Washington.
“It’s not only not going to get better, it gets worse every day,” Bannon said. “They’re corporatist, globalist media that are adamantly opposed to an economic nationalist agenda like Donald Trump has.”
“If you think they’re going to give you your country back without a fight,” he added. “You are sadly mistaken.”
http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-top-trump-advisor-rails-at-1487879759-htmlstory.html
Yesterday , at the CPAC conference, Bannon confirmed his and 45’s plan to fight against and destroy the free press in America. On a daily basis, 45 is directly attacking and working to dismantle our first amendment and the journalists who uphold it.
If enough American people agree that anything any msm news organization reports, unless it’s favorable to 45 and his advisers, is a lie, then we’ll no longer have a democracy.
What’s frightening is that Trump supporters seem to mostly agree ( according to. Ore than one poll) that mainstream media organizations are disseminating lies. His supporters either don’t understand or don’t agree with the first amendment as a foundation of our democracy.
That’s the truly scary news: Trump is grabbing support for a move to state-sponsored news.
Unless Congress condemns the daily push for pro- Trump propaganda only news agencies, I fear for the future of our country as I have known and loved it.
Edward R Murrow- we (sadly) need you again.
Trump is promoting fear and hatred. He cares not that immigrants are important to the running of this country. I’ve read of cases where parents are taken from work and children are left alone at home. Some people are making preparations for what their children should do if they don’t show up at home after work.
How long can this country continue when it is promoting hatred and fear? Muslims and Mexicans or anyone from Latin American are on his hate list. This is repulsive.
………………..
Donald Trump Plans to Bypass the Courts to Deport as Many People as Possible
Ryan Devereaux, The Intercept
Devereaux writes: “The Department of Homeland Security released a pair of memos laying out how the agency intends to implement President Donald Trump’s executive orders on domestic immigration enforcement. The memos dramatically expand the range of people who can be deported without seeing a judge.” …
According to the U.S. immigration official, if expedited removal is expanded without an increase in judges, the backlog of individuals who do manage to pass their credible fear screenings will grow significantly. Because the Trump administration has taken a hard-line stance against so-called “catch and release” practices, this expanded population would be held in detention. Those extended stays in detention waiting to see a judge could then result in individuals who should have been granted asylum giving up and accepting deportation. “Being detained is hard for these people,” the official said. “They aren’t criminals.”
https://interc.pt/2kRc5ux
Diane, there were two Dulles brothers in response to your question, the one that JFK fired was ironically appointed to head the Warren Report after JFKs death. This is how history is put down Orwell’s “memory hole”
Joseph,
Allen Dulles did not head the Warren Commission. Oddly enough, it was headed by Earl Warren.
John Foster Dulles
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Foster_Dulles
Died May 24, 1959
Kennedy, a Democrat, was president from January 20, 1961 – November 22, 1963.
Allen Dulles was Director of Central Intelligence 1953 – 1961. He was appointed to that position by President Dwight D. Eisenhower, a Republican.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_Dulles
Died 1969
In Office February 26, 1953 – November 29, 1961
The rapid expansion of the CIA, and a developed sense of independence under the Director of Central Intelligence (DCI) Allen Dulles exacerbated the problem of the U.S. Intelligence Community’s freedom from independent review. After the armed landing of Cuban exiles in the Bay of Pigs Invasion of Cuba in 1961, President Kennedy discharged and replaced Dulles. Dulles had been an O.S.S. veteran from World War II. His autobiography[26] is more noteworthy for giving insight into the mindset of key people in the field than it is in giving a detailed description of the CIA and its operations
Several failed assassination plots utilizing CIA-recruited operatives from the Italian-American Mafia and anti-Castro Cubans directly against Castro undermined the CIA’s credibility. The reputation of the agency and its director declined drastically after the Bay of Pigs Invasion fiasco. President Kennedy reportedly said he wanted to “splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it into the winds.” However, following a “rigorous inquiry into the agency’s affairs, methods, and problems … [Kennedy] did not ‘splinter’ it after all and did not recommend Congressional supervision.”[26]
During the Kennedy Administration, Dulles faced increasing criticism.[2] In autumn 1961, following the Bay of Pigs incident and Algiers putsch against Charles de Gaulle, Dulles and his entourage, including Deputy Director for Plans Richard M. Bissell, Jr. and Deputy Director Charles Cabell, were forced to resign. On November 28, 1961, Kennedy presented Dulles with the National Security Medal at the CIA Headquarters in Langley, Virginia.[27] The next day, November 29, the White House released a resignation letter signed by Dulles
On November 29, 1963, President Lyndon Baines Johnson appointed Dulles as one of seven commissioners of the Warren Commission to investigate the assassination of the U.S. President John F. Kennedy
Lloyd,
Joseph is trying to make the case that Allen Dulles, former head of the CIA, organized the JFK assassination to retaliate for being fired by JFK after the disastrous Bay of Pigs.
One of the very few rules of this blog is that I have a flat ban on conspiracy theories. I have deleted comments that claim the Sandy Hook massacre of children and staff was a fake; I have deleted comments that the World Trade Center was rigged to collapse or was somehow perpetrated by the CIA or the Israelis. I will delete comments about who killed Kennedy.
This is only a partial quote which comes from a Muslim lady who worked in the West Wing of the WH under Obama and Trump. The length is quite long so I just picked out the beginning. It speaks of the bigotry and ignorance of our current President and how people are being damaged by his acts that encourage hatred.
………………….
Headline: I was a Muslim in Trump’s White House: Ruma Ahmed
When President Obama left, I stayed on at the National Security Council to serve my
country. I lasted eight days.
In 2011, I was hired, straight out of college, to work at the White House and eventually the
National Security Council. My job there was to promote and protect the best of what my
country stands for. I am a hijab-wearing Muslim woman––I was the only hijabi in the West
Wing––and the Obama administration always made me feel welcome and included.
Like most of my fellow American Muslims, I spent much of 2016 watching with
consternation as Donald Trump vilified our community. Despite this––or because of it––I
thought I should try to stay on the NSC staff during the Trump Administration, to give the
new president and his aides a more nuanced view of Islam, and of America’s Muslim
citizens. I lasted eight days.
When Trump issued a ban on travelers from seven Muslim-majority countries and all
Syrian refugees, I knew I could no longer stay and work for an administration that saw me
and people like me not as fellow citizens, but as a threat.
The evening before I left, bidding farewell to some of my colleagues, many of whom have
also since left, I notified Trump’s senior NSC communications adviser, Michael Anton, of
my departure, since we shared an office. His initial surprise, asking whether I was leaving
government entirely, was followed by silence––almost in caution, not asking why. I told
him anyway.
I told him I had to leave because it was an insult walking into this country’s most historic
building every day under an administration that is working against and vilifying everything
I stand for as an American and as a Muslim. I told him that the administration was
attacking the basic tenets of democracy. I told him that I hoped that they and those in
Congress were prepared to take responsibility for all the consequences that would attend
their decisions.
He looked at me and said nothing.
It was only later I learned he authored an essay under a pseudonym, extolling the virtues of authoritarianism and attacking diversity as a “weakness,” and Islam as “incompatible with the modern West.”
My whole life and everything I have learned proves that facile statement wrong…